SHOWNOTES
In this episode, I chat with international best-selling author, award-winning speaker, and marketing strategist Teresa Heath-Wareing about what’s really working with launches in 2025.
If you've ever felt like launching is harder than it used to be, you're right! Teresa breaks down exactly why launches are failing today and how you can adapt your strategy to stay ahead. We cover everything from building an audience the right way, leveraging other people’s platforms, crafting a winning pre-launch strategy, and the paid workshop model that’s working like crazy right now.
🚀 What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
Why launching has changed dramatically and what that means for your business
The critical pre-launch strategy most people miss (and how to get it right)
Real numbers and conversion rates you should expect from your launches
How to leverage other people's audiences effectively
The power of paid workshops as a launch strategy
Why webinars aren't dead (and how to make them work in 2025)
The exact math behind successful launches - from list size to conversion rates
A brilliant case study of making $26,000 from one reluctant webinar creator
Why pre-launch content is more crucial than ever
The new paid workshop strategy that's converting at 25%
RESOURCES
Teresa's Website: teresaheathwareing.com
Upcoming Webinar (Feb 27, 2025): "3 Reasons Why Your Launches Flopped and How to Fix Them" teresaheathwareing.com/masterclass
Connect with Teresa:
Instagram: @teresa_heathwareing
🎧 Don’t miss this episode! If you loved this conversation, DM me on Instagram@jen_lehner and let me know your biggest takeaway! 🚀
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:02.070] - Gary Vaynerchuk Hey, guys. It's Gary Vaynerchuk. And you're listening to the Front Row Entrepreneur Podcast with our girl, Jen.
[00:00:09.510] - Jen Lehner Our guest today is an international best-selling author, award-winning speaker, TEDx Speaker, podcaster of a number one rated podcast and online business owner. She is a marketing and business growth strategic coach who works with online business owners, course creators, membership owners, and coaches grow their online businesses to six and seven figures. Welcome back to the show, my good, good friend, Teresa Heath-Wareing.
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[00:00:40.500] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Yay. Thank you for having me, Jen. It's so awesome to be back.
[00:00:44.790] - Jen Lehner Yeah, it's always good to hang out with you. And I always learn so much from you, whether I'm sitting next to you at a conference on the front row, as we have done so many times together. We love doing that, or we're just chatting on a Zoom call, or we're talking to each other through the DM's, or you're gracious enough to bless me with your presence on my podcast. I always learn so much from you. Today, we're going to be talking about launching because you are a launch expert. Gosh, and I've learned so much about launching from you. But people struggle with launches, obviously. It's not easy. Why are people failing at launching?
[00:01:24.220] - Teresa Heath-Wareing I think it'd be great to just... We're recording this in 2025, at the beginning of 2025. I think one thing that we need to note is it's changed a lot. You and I have been in this industry for some time, and we're like OGs. Launching back in the day, I was having a conversation with someone I'm in a mastermind with, and she was like, when she used to do a challenge five years ago, hundreds and hundreds of people would come up, join. Hundreds of people would then buy her thing. She is just not getting that anymore. It's changed. Launching has changed. I I interviewed a few weeks back Julie Solomon on the podcast, and she was saying that customers are more discerning, and rightly so, so they should be. I think we had a massive influx of people coming into the online space thinking it was a get-rich-quick, doing all these launches, selling all these things. I think that made everybody go, Hang on a minute. That means for the people like us who are very genuine and who have excellent products, who really care, it's harder. It's much harder than it used to be.
[00:02:28.800] - Teresa Heath-Wareing I think that's the first We're not on the same playing field. If you've done a launch previously and it's not working, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're necessarily doing anything wrong. It's just a very different playing field that we're in now. But it does mean that we have to work extra hard on certain aspects, not even certain aspects of the whole of the launch, but there are certain things that we have to put more effort into that maybe previously you never had to.
[00:02:52.470] - Jen Lehner What?
[00:02:54.610] - Teresa Heath-Wareing The first thing is having that audience. We go on about this all the time, and I know you'll talk about it as well. I talk about it constantly. It is a numbers game, and I don't want to make that sound like we don't care about the people because I know you and I both care deeply about the people we work with. But everything we do from a launch point of view, there is a set of numbers that are standard. It doesn't matter whether you are ginormous and have 400,000 people on your email list or whether you have 40 people on your email list. Those percentages tend to be the same. So So there is a good and a bad, but they tend to be the same percentages. So it just makes perfect sense that the more people you have on your email list, the more people you have in your world, the more successful your launch is going to be. Because 10% of 10 and 10% of 100 are different. For me, though, when it comes to the audience building is that people, again, it's harder than it used to be, and you can't just post on social media now and hope to build an audience.
[00:03:59.450] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Now, I'm not I'm not saying don't. I'm not saying that isn't an option. Yes, some people will post on social media and build brilliant audiences, but they are few and far between. Building an audience now has to be way more strategic and way more effort than maybe you've ever done before. And I think that people aren't seeing that, and they're just thinking, I can post, and I can have one lead magnet, and that should do me.
[00:04:23.570] - Jen Lehner Absolutely. Now, are you saying that organic is gone and that we should just do paid or a combination of both?
[00:04:33.580] - Teresa Heath-Wareing So I think Organic is always something that we need to do. You and I both have a podcast. We show up in places, we have social media. So I'm never going to say, don't do those things because they're really helpful for lots of reasons. Actually, before I look at paid, I want you to look at other people's audiences. This is a strategy where this is what I am teaching a lot of. It's not just getting you an audience, it's making you the go-to person. It's making you the industry expert, and it's making you stand out from everyone else. Again, I think we are so used to seeing ads. We are so jaded by We don't trust anything, and I think that's not a bad thing, but we need to build that trust element, and other people's audiences are making you the go-to person is what's going to do it. But again, that doesn't happen necessarily organically. It can. I think for me, it did happen a bit organically, but you have to put some work in, and I still have to put the work in now. For me, showing up for other people's audiences looks like applying to go on podcast.
[00:05:45.850] - Teresa Heath-Wareing It looks like applying to speaker events. It looks like putting myself forward to go and do a session in someone else's group, to go and teach something else, to do a workshop for someone. It's basically you finding where your audience and going and offering something. For you, Jen, you are the queen of AI and tech and all that thing, and you are way ahead of me and so much got your head around this more than I have. You coming on my podcast, speaking to my audience and talking about AI or something that I can't talk about is perfect. It's a win-win for both of us. I put you in front of my audience, you teach my audience something that I can't. The same with this. I come on and talk about launches, I get in front of your audience. It's both a win-win. That's the first thing to look at. It's got to be a win-win. Secondly, personally, I am not too bothered about the size of the audience. I know people get really hung up on that, and do not get me wrong, if some of the big people in our industry said, tomorrow, come on my podcast, I would bite their arm off, right?
[00:06:51.300] - Teresa Heath-Wareing I would literally be like, yes, thank you very much. However, I just want to give you this one example. I pitched someone's podcast. It was It was pretty much a brand new podcast. Obviously, at this point, I have no idea how many downloads they're getting. They didn't have many reviews. But I pitched because it was a nice fit and this person seemed nice. I went on to her podcast and just fell in love with her. She was amazing and we got on really well. It turned out that her podcast was probably not even at that point getting 50 downloads. It was so small, but that wasn't the aim. My aim was just get in front of people, have conversations. That one person has brought me in all Almost 25 grand. Wow. Because that one person, I went on her podcast, we got on really well. She had my dreams to work with you one day. About a year and a half later, she came on as a one-to-one client. She then recommended me to someone else who came on as a one-to-one client, and that person has recommended me to someone else, and they're coming on as a one-to-one client.
[00:07:53.680] - Jen Lehner There you go. I love it. What a great example. That's it. The other thing is, they're doing so much of the heavy lifting that takes a year sometimes to build in the sense that- Totally. Her audience trusts her. Therefore, the no-like trust factor is just The amount of time it takes to get there is just it's instantaneous because she's endorsing you by having you on her podcast. So they don't have to wonder, is this person legit? Is this person competent?
[00:08:27.910] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Yeah. And that's the other thing. And I think For me, in fact, Jen, this is so funny because you are the only person whose product I've affiliated from a course point of view. I've affiliated tech products, and I have affiliated or been affiliated, I guess, for summits and things like that. But you're the only person who did a launch and I sent emails to my list because of that reason. Because I have taken ages to build my audience as you have, and I'll only put people in front of them that I love and trust and know they're amazing. I I think that's the thing. You need to have that, not you, but people need to have that respect. If someone's pitching to come on your podcast or pitching to come on mine, that's why it has to be a win-win, because I've had people pitch just to get in front of my audience, and I've been like, No. You're not giving me anything. I can tell you're just trying to take, but it needs to be strategic. So one thing I want to say about this is, as I've already said, it's a numbers game.
[00:09:23.530] - Teresa Heath-Wareing This whole thing is a numbers game. The same with pitching. I want you, whoever's listening to this, I want you to start Start pitching people. Now, it is going to feel horrible. You're going to hate it. You're going to go, I'm not an expert. Why would they have me? I will look at someone else's podcast, and I'm sure people do the same in ours, and they will look at the fact that you had Gary Vane and Chuck I'll go, She had Gary Vanechuck. She's never going to have me. Well, we need guests all the time. It doesn't mean we're getting Gary Vanechuk every week. I don't want you to get hung up with all of that. I do want you to work hard at what value you can add and being considerate to the people you're pitching to. I don't just want you to be cold pitching. I do want you to do some homework. I tell you the one thing, especially as a podcaster, that will get my attention more than anything is if you give me a review. If someone says, I've given you a review and they screenshot the review, that gets my attention.
[00:10:18.460] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Okay, so straight off the bat.
[00:10:19.710] - Jen Lehner I love that.
[00:10:20.600] - Teresa Heath-Wareing But I want you to treat it like a numbers game. This isn't about how many podcasts or how many stages or how many things I can get on. This is about how many can you apply for. I recently just did a challenge in my group with my people. We call it T's World, because I have one-to-one people and then group people and then main people. There's a lot of people. Anyway, we did this challenge with all the different people in my world, and the challenge was they had to apply for 14 things a week for three weeks. I love that. Over those three weeks, they had to apply for 48 different places. The challenge was, have you applied It wasn't, how many did you get? And I think, again, back to that numbers game, you've got to be applying because you and I will know, we have had a podcast for a long time. Normally, I am so far ahead with my guests and my bookings and that thing. If someone was to come to me today and say, Can I be on your podcast? There's a chance they wouldn't be on until, I don't know, middle of the year, if not longer than that ahead.
[00:11:26.740] - Teresa Heath-Wareing For me, it's about just asking and I've got a great little insight for you. One of my people in one of my Accelerator groups posted in the group and she wrote, A bit of quick maths. I've reached out to 65 podcasters since starting this. She'd worked with me for about six months. Obviously, that challenge was something we did just for three weeks because I could not expect anybody to manage that for longer. 14 have said yes, so 65. 14 have said yes, 14 have said no or not taking guests at the moment, and the rest has said nothing. To put that into perspective, when T says it's a numbers game, it really is. It doesn't matter about the outcome. It matters about asking. You know what will happen? They will start to drip in. Again, the reason you have to be consistent is because you might record one today that goes out in three months time. You might not get a yes right now. You might have to wait six months and then get a yes. I pitched to speak at an event this year, and they said, We're booked, but can we have you next year?
[00:12:26.550] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Already, I'm filling up for next year. But I was asking Now. We need to ask. We need to be putting that down, whether it's in a habit tracker, whether it's in every single week we're going to do it. But we need to get in the habit of just asking the question. Whether they say yes or whether they say no, nothing to do with us. I know No, and you'll be the same. There are a million reasons I say no to someone on my podcast. Maybe we've just had someone talking about it. Maybe I have an expert that I love and want them to talk about it. Maybe we just don't talk about that thing. Maybe I don't think that person is a good fit. Whatever is, it doesn't necessarily mean I don't like them or I don't think they're good at what they do. It just is no for now. Using that muscle, being strategic, how can I put myself out there? How can I become the guest expert? Then it becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy because the more you do, the more people see, the more you get asked. I love it. Today, you are my third of three podcast interviews that I've done.
[00:13:24.330] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Two of them pitched me, and actually I emailed you going, Hey, do you want me back on, Jen? Let's do a swap, and we're going to do a swap. But That becomes more the more you do it, but we need to be strategic in the early days and do it.
[00:13:37.580] - Jen Lehner I love this. Okay, beyond podcast, do you also reach out to people who have memberships and talk about doing maybe free trainings for their memberships, or what are some other ways that we can get in front of other people's audiences?
[00:13:51.120] - Teresa Heath-Wareing You could go live with someone. Okay, it's not as long form as the other things or as in-depth. However, if someone's got a really big Instagram account or a really big LinkedIn and you're going live with them, then awesome. You could do sessions in other people's memberships. You could do joint webinars. You could do email swaps. I've had it where people have approached me and said, If I send an email for you, will you send an email for me? If we've got similar audiences and we do something slightly different, then why wouldn't we do that? We need to do that. We absolutely do need to do that. We need to do that. We could do summits. So I did a summit last year, my first summit, Jen spoke of it, and that's a great... I have guested on so many summits. Some of them are brilliant, some of them are absolute pants. It's hard to tell, so you just have to do them. If you like writing, you could guest blog. You must have written for Social Media Examiner over the years, and so have I. Back in the day, that was a really big thing for us to do that.
[00:14:56.210] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Obviously, speaking on stages and virtual stages, basically anywhere where they might have a guest, put yourself forward. Just ask the question. If you've never done this before, I started small, and I tell this story all the time because it's so funny and ridiculous. But when I started speaking, we have something in the UK called Biz Mums. Basically, it's mums in business who meet at a soft play, those horrible things that your kids go to where there's loads of balls and it stinks and it's probably not clean. It's Jewish. It's literally horrible. I would go to one of them with my laptop and three mums, and I would present my talk to them. That's how I started.
[00:15:39.180] - Jen Lehner This is why I love you so much. I love that.
[00:15:42.780] - Teresa Heath-Wareing But I had to do that. I feel like everybody wants the big stages. Everybody wants to be this person or that person. But actually, that's where I started. Then once you do that, you do the next thing, and you build up to that, and build up to that. Again, I want you to be brave when you're pitching and things, but don't go and pitch for something massive. If you've never been interviewed on a podcast before, don't go and pitch for a massive podcast, because if you are terrible, you're going to fall flat on your face big. If you're not good to start with, which you might not be, you might have to get used to how it works, then go do that on a smaller podcast that people aren't paying attention to as much. But ask the question. Ask the question.
[00:16:25.830] - Jen Lehner Love that. All right. This is a great reminder for me as well. I I have been a little lazy. I've been doing a lot of my list building with Facebook ads, so I needed to hear this. I needed to be reminded. All right, we've talked about list building. What about where are the other missteps that you see in launching?
[00:16:46.070] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Is it with the pre-launch? I think I'm going to talk about the pre-launch thing because it's fairly... I'm going to say it's new. It's not really new, but it's like now we have to do it more strategically because because of how tricky the launching can be. Normally with the launch window is you have a launch experience. A launch experience is a boot camp, is a challenge, is an open house, is a webinar. That has a date It's obviously. Let's go with the webinar because it's easy and it's one day. Let's say you're doing a webinar, two weeks before is normally your launch window. In those two weeks prior to the webinar date, you are only talking about the webinar. Everything you do, webinar, webinar, webinar. You don't even mention you've got a product, you don't even talk about the product. You are literally like a broken record, go and come to my webinar. And normally that's like a two-week window. But what we need to do and what is becoming really useful is pre-launch content before that window. The way I want you to think about that is... Okay, Amy did this really, really well, and I'm going to use her as an example because it's she- Amy Waterfield, folks.
[00:17:58.630] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Yeah. She did this really, really well. She obviously has a course called Digital Course Academy, and that teaches people how to do a course. She was doing a boot camp, actually, and then into a masterclass. I mean, it was literally like a masterclass on how to launch. It was massive. But you have to remember, she has a massive team, and she's done this a long time, so let's not get hung up on that. She was doing this thing on a boot camp on coming up with your course idea and basically validating that you have a course. Perfect. She's selling a product on how to do the whole course and sell it and all that. Her boot camp was, let me help you come up with a course idea and know that it's going to be good, right? However, her pre-launch content was around the fact of what if they had never even considered a course as possible for them? What is the objection to even that very first step? Let's say I'm doing a webinar on launching, which I am doing a webinar soon on launching, and it's about why your launches flop and how to fix them.
[00:19:03.750] - Teresa Heath-Wareing What would my customer need to know or understand or what objection might they have to even get them to consider coming to that webinar? So one of the objections might be that launches don't work anymore. They might go, Well, I don't even need to come to that because I know launches don't work, so what's the point? Or another thought that they might have is, I have a list that's too small, there's no point me launching. Or launches, I don't need to do a launch. I can just send emails. What are the objections? What are the things that they might think that would stop them even considering getting into that launch experience? With Amy, one of the things that she did was talking about... She did a podcast about how do I even know I could never make a course. I have no knowledge to do a course. She was answering the objection of someone going, Well, that's a great idea, but that's never going to happen to me because I don't know how... I've got nothing to talk about on a course. If someone thought, Well, I could never do a course, they're never signing up to a boot camp that's about how to come up with your course idea, are they?
[00:20:09.570] - Teresa Heath-Wareing She was creating content weeks, and I mean weeks, so probably four, six weeks before promoting the launch experience. Again, she wasn't saying anything about the launch. Again, I wouldn't say anything about the launch. Another really good example is I did a master It was actually a paid masterclass, but I was doing it around how to do a webinar. So there's a real science when you're on a webinar, how to do it effectively and how to sell and all that. And I was doing this masterclass. So before I started selling that masterclass, I did content around are webinars dead? Why webinars work? The science behind webinars, the fact that webinars aren't just free training. So I was basically all the objections that they might have prior to even considering it, I was trying to get ahead of it. Another example, I'm just going to give you some different examples for the people who might be listening. So one of them, I have a lady who has a membership about perimenopause and menopause, right? So we take one aspect, and she was going to do some webinar around sleep and that thing, because obviously the perimenopause and menopause can really affect your sleep.
[00:21:19.070] - Teresa Heath-Wareing And as a woman, then you feel like you're going mad and you can't focus and think you're terrible and all that stuff. When we looked at all that, I said to her, What do they need to know to even think about coming on. Well, one of the very first things that someone might need to know is the sheer fact that they are even old enough or that perimenopause is even a thing. Because you might have someone who's hitting 40, and they might think, Well, that doesn't happen until you're 50. If that is their head, they're never going to come to a webinar, and they're never going to sign up to a thing. It's what's their belief, or what is their lack of education, or what's their objection? In that case, their lack of education, and I don't mean to say that meanly, but they didn't know, is that person might not even know that they could be in perimenopause. The aim of her content in her pre-launch would be, let's educate people and let's tell them, do you know what age perimenopause? Do you know that sleep disturbances can be caused by perimenopause? Do you know that there is something you can do?
[00:22:21.880] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Because, again, how many women have grown up with parents or mums that basically you just have to put up with it? It just is what it is. Again, the education piece of, No, that is not the case. There is actually things that you can do. It's almost like, for me, when I'm doing this, it's like, Okay, what's the transformation they're after? You ask yourself, Why? What does that mean to them? Again, what does that mean to them? Again, what does that mean? You keep digging down and down and down. Then when you see that bottom one, once you've really dug into what that means to them, what would they need to know, understand understand or what objection might they have about that? That's the content we put out. By the point you actually go, Hey, I'm doing a master class about a webinar, or, Hey, I'm doing a webinar about perimenobles and sleep, or, Hey, I'm doing a boot camp about how to come up with a course idea, we've already got them over the objection that would stop them even taking that first step.
[00:23:26.180] - Jen Lehner What was Amy doing for the pre-pre content before the webinar?
[00:23:32.910] - Teresa Heath-Wareing It was things like, My list is too small. I don't have a list. There was loads of objections, and then she did lots of content around aspirational stuff. Again, it's not just... Sometimes we have to even let people know it's possible. She did stuff like, I was here, now I'm here. What would I go back and say to the corporate Amy? That you could actually have this. It was around the, I'm going to educate you around, you could even have this, this is even a thing. Also, I'm going to inspire you and go, Look, this is a thing. Then she did case study stuff as well. But it's like, what is the objection that people might have to even take that first step. Because imagine if you're losing a whole host of people because they don't even think it's possible or they have a belief that webinars don't work, launches don't work, my needs to be bigger or they have objections as to launches are sleazy and salesy. For instance, some of my pre-launch content for that could be launches don't have to be sleazy and salesy. Love it. If that's one of your objections, then when I say, Come and I can teach you how to do a better launch in a webinar, then at least they're halfway there of like, Oh, okay, well, maybe I would look at that because I did think it was, but actually, she said otherwise.
[00:24:57.150] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Amy, in her example, and some of the stuff that I did was it was podcast episode. So you have to get... And again, this is a pain in the backside, but if we want to be in this space, this is the stuff we got to do. You really now need to think about that launch window of, okay, so if I'm going to... If you've got a program that's starting on a certain date, you have to look back, how long am I going to want my window open for for sales? Okay, let's say it's five days. Okay, so that's the day I need to do my webinar. So two weeks before that, I need to be promoting the webinar, at least. And then six weeks before that in a really ideal world, four would be fine. I'm going to need to do pre-launch content. The pre-launch content doesn't have to be... Whereas when you're in that promotion window, that is all you are doing. Your pre-launch content doesn't have to be that aggressive. It just needs to be there, running through it all the way up until the point where you start them promoting. Really, you're looking at like, so four, five, six, seven, almost seven, eight weeks.
[00:25:59.380] - Teresa Heath-Wareing You're looking almost two months running up to a launch. I know that sounds a lot, and some people aren't going to want to go to that effort all the time, and they might want to do smaller launches and things. But when I see someone doing a launch of a signature program or a signature offer or something like that, it's like that's the thought that's going into it. When we see, and I think this is, and this can bring me on to my last point of the numbers, but when we see other people doing these humongous launches and we think, how the hell do they do them? How have they just sold 2,000 of something at $2,000? That's the work they're going to. That's the effort. I'm not saying you've got to find what works for you and how you can manage things. But even if you can do a bit of that running into it, then that is going to start getting people ready. It's almost like sublimitly getting them ready for what's coming.
[00:26:54.350] - Jen Lehner I already know the sound bite or one of the sound bites from this podcast is when you said, Look, if we're going to be in this business, this is the work that we have to do. This is what you have to do. I mean, period. That's it. You're exactly right.
[00:27:10.650] - Teresa Heath-Wareing It's not what it was. Back in COVID days, we could wrap something online and people would buy it. Don't we miss that sometimes? But in another way, I'm really glad that people are more discerning. I'm really glad that people are going, actually, I'm not just going to spend money here, there, and everywhere. Therefore, the ones who really care, we are going to put the effort in because this is our world. We love this stuff.
[00:27:33.680] - Jen Lehner That's right. All right. We've covered list building. We've built the list. We've gotten in front of other people's audiences. We've You positioned our launch well with a lot of seeding activity and addressing objectives well in advance in the pre-launch phase, pre-pre-launch, really. What's left?
[00:27:59.130] - Teresa Heath-Wareing So This is like a reality check this bit, and this is the bit I'm flipping geek over because I love this stuff. I joke that I watch people's launches like other people's watch Netflix. It's like, Who's doing a launch? I'm literally out there making the notes with my popcorn, doing all the things because I just love seeing what people are doing. One of the things I do is I collect data. Sound like such a weirdo. I do have a life.
[00:28:27.100] - Jen Lehner I love it.
[00:28:28.680] - Teresa Heath-Wareing But basically, because I help people launch, I consult for people, I have people in my membership, I have people who work on to accelerate with me, I see launch numbers all the time, so I track them. Basically, I find out people's list size, their launches, numbers, how many people turned up, how many people paid, how many people bought the thing? And I have percentages that are pretty average, and obviously, I've done research other places. I want to go through some percentages with you. I've actually got a presentation in front of me because I need to remind myself. Okay, so we start with your email list. Now, yes, you can run ads. Yes, you can do cold stuff, but that is going to have an effect. So it's really hard to say what effect that will have. So I'm just going to talk as if we're talking from your list. So your list, when you email your list and say, I am doing a launch experience, and by launch experience, I mean boot camp, challenge, webinar, whatever. Roughly between 15 and 30% of your list will get on your launch list. So your launch list being they sign up to say, Yes, I want to do this thing.
[00:29:30.800] - Teresa Heath-Wareing So 15 to 30%. Then from your launch list, we want people to take part in the experience. That's why we do an experience. You will get roughly between 20 and 40% of them taking part. If it's a webinar, however many people have signed up to your launch list, roughly 20 to 40% of them can actually turn up to your webinar. Then when it comes to selling, we skip the engagement bit because it's a bit harder to know. It's slightly nuanced. But basically, from your launch list, roughly anywhere between 1 and 8%, 8 being good, will buy from your launch list. I've got an example, and I want to show you. Often people go, I need a massive list. Well, yeah, having a bigger list will help. They go, Mine hasn't been successful, but I want to show you the difference between a lower percentage and a higher percentage. This is the stuff I geek out on, because what I want to be able to do is say this is my launch, and then I go, let's tweak that, tweak that, tweak that, run again. Let's see how we can improve these numbers, because you will see the wild difference between a launch on the lower end of the % and a launch on the higher end of the %.
[00:30:49.250] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Let's say your list size is a thousand, easy round number because that's not really my strong point. Same. Let's say 15%, so that's the lower end, 15 10 % of your email list sign up to your webinar. I'm going to keep saying webinar, but you know what I'm saying, transfer that out for boot camp or whatever. Let's say 15%, so that's the lower end of your list. Again, some of the things that might affect that and change that is how used is that list? How warm is that list? Have you ever offered a webinar before? If you haven't and it's a small list, you're likely to get a higher %. But let's stick with this. So 15%. So that means on your launch list is 150 people. Then let's say you get a 20% engagement in your actual experience. Again, we're going on the lower rate. That means you could expect roughly 30 people to come to your webinar. So immediately, hopefully people are going, Oh, wow. That's not a lot of people. Well, if you have 30 people in your house, it's quite a lot. But when you look at someone else's webinar, that looks like not a lot of people.
[00:31:50.840] - Teresa Heath-Wareing But take it. I'll take 30 people. Then let's say that 2% of your audience of your launch list buy I do try to do 1%, but it just looks ridiculous. Let's say you're selling something for 997. If 2% of that launch list buy, you've sold two, and that's given you £1,994 in revenue for that launch. Now, let's tweak the numbers. List size, a thousand. I've not changed that. I'm going to keep it the same. But this time, let's say we've done a really good job convincing them why they to come to this webinar, and 30% of your list sign up to your launch list. You've got 300 people on your launch list. Then let's say, because we've done a really good job at making them turn up live, 40% of your launch list turn up live, suddenly now you've got 120 people coming to your webinar. We haven't changed your original number. We've just gone with the two ends of the spectrum of where you could be. That's 120 people who turn up live to your webinar. Then let's say 8% buy. Now, this is not impossible. It's high, but it's not impossible. That suddenly means you have 24 sales, and based on a product of 997, you've just bought in 23,928.
[00:33:14.740] - Jen Lehner Amazing and so realistic. Those aren't crazy. You didn't pull out some impossible scenario. That's absolutely doable, and I love that.
[00:33:26.030] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Look how wildly different it is. You go from doing a launch of not even making 2,000 to making 23,000, nearly 24,000. But the thing is, what happens is when people start launching, they don't know those numbers, and they don't know what's realistic. They just watch We've all been there. We've seen a webinar where there's all these screens, and we can... One day, Jen, one day. But we've seen that, and then we've seen all the people going, I'm buying, I'm buying, I'm buying, I'm buying, and you're like, Oh, my God, this is amazing. Then you your launch and you're like, Why the hell didn't no one buy? Or why have I got three people? Or why have I got five people? Then what happens is you go, That doesn't work. I'm not doing that again. Then you reinvent the wheel and you do something different. Whereas what I want you to do is I want you to take action. That's the first thing. Because, and I've used the list size here of a thousand, I'm actually in preparation for my upcoming webinar, I am getting some testimonials and things and just recapping on some. I I've had someone make 10 grand of a list of under 200 people.
[00:34:35.180] - Jen Lehner Amazing.
[00:34:37.530] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Now, do I do that every day? No. But it's possible. It's not even about you need to get to a thousand. I just did that as a nice round number. But the thing is, what we need to do is then tweak. Let's say, how many emails did you send to get people on your launch list? You're doing a webinar, how many emails did you send? Someone might say to me, Oh, I sent three. Okay, I I'm writing them at the moment. I've written about nine so far, and I think I've got another four or five to go. Last time you sent three and you got this percentage, let's say we sent six. Let's see what happens. That might improve the percentage. Okay, now getting people to actually turn up to the webinar because that is proven that it will make them more engaged and more likely to purchase. So how many emails did you send to get them to turn up? Oh, just two. Okay, let's tweak that and send some more. And let's Let's take a workbook because that's proven to get people to turn up more, and let's give them a bonus for showing up live.
[00:35:35.180] - Teresa Heath-Wareing What does that do to our percentage? Then when we're actually selling, what did the sales page look like? How many sales emails did you do? There are so many other nuances, was it a cold audience? Did we do ads? Have you ever sold this product before? How much was the product? For instance, the lady who sold and made 10 grand, she sold a really high-ticket product. I think she got about three or four people, but it was a high-ticket product. Whereas if that same person sold something for $20, I don't know what she would have sold. But do you know what I mean? That's why for me, one of the favorite bits of my job is someone coming to me going, This didn't work, and me breaking it all down with their numbers and then digging in and going, but that makes perfect sense. So someone doing a webinar where they have a cold audience that have come in from ads, I would expect a lower percentage of people to show up to the webinar because they don't know you. They've just signed up. If they're going to miss it, they would be like, well, I didn't know them anyway, so I probably wouldn't go.
[00:36:36.890] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Again, there's so many nuances within this. Even though I wanted to give you a very realistic look, and I think we need to be realistic, I think that's really important because so many people just go, This stuff doesn't work, or even worse, they think something's wrong with them because they're not getting the big numbers and they're not bringing in the stuff. I wanted to be realistic, but I also want to say there are lots of nuances that can make a difference to this. This isn't a pitch for me, but that's why working with someone who understands this can go, Well, that makes perfect sense. Then you won't believe the amount of conversations that I have, especially in some of our chats in our community, where they're like, This is what happened. I feel awful. Then I come in and go, That's that %, that's that %. You had a new audience or a cold audience, or you haven't list built since the last time you did this. That makes perfect sense. Then they go, Oh, okay, thanks.
[00:37:30.360] - Jen Lehner I love it. I love it. And well, do you work with people individually with their launches?
[00:37:37.450] - Teresa Heath-Wareing I do. Last year, I actually did some consulting for a big personal brand and mapped out their launch and mapped out their... They hated webinars. They did not want to do a webinar. They did a webinar, and they had never done one before, and they didn't want to do it, and they weren't convinced. It was actually a launch list of about five I say they're big, they're really well known. They don't have a massive... It wasn't launch list of 5,000. It was their list of 5,000. Got it. They ended up making about 26,000.
[00:38:09.430] - Jen Lehner Nice.
[00:38:10.230] - Teresa Heath-Wareing From one webinar that they didn't even want to do, and actually, they didn't have to do anything else other than rock up to the webinar. I've been doing some consulting, which was really good. We then turned it into Evergreen, which is now bringing them more money in, which is awesome. Nice. Then I do one-to-one work. Rather than consulting, it's more of a, you go away and do this and this and this, and here's the strategy. But yeah, I do some one to one with.
[00:38:34.080] - Jen Lehner And this webinar that you have coming up, can people register for it on your website yet or not yet?
[00:38:40.050] - Teresa Heath-Wareing When's this episode going out?
[00:38:42.260] - Jen Lehner Soon.
[00:38:43.880] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Okay, so it's on the 27th of February. And yes, if it goes out before 27th of February- Yeah, it will be.
[00:38:50.590] - Jen Lehner It'll be out before that. Cool. Yeah.
[00:38:51.760] - Teresa Heath-Wareing So go to my website or go to Instagram and comment the word masterclass. And I've got a chatbot kicking in and doing all that jazz. But Yeah, website, Instagram, podcast, I mentioned it as well. But I think if you go to teresaheathwareing.com/masterclass, it's live.
[00:39:08.890] - Jen Lehner Thank you. Let's talk about your podcast. You got to listen to Teresa's podcast. Obviously, she has the dreamiest accent and voice. I love it. It's like you definitely want to add this to your podcast rotation. It's called... What is the name?
[00:39:25.770] - Teresa Heath-Wareing It's called Your Dream Business. Okay, thank you. I've changed the name a few times, Jen. Have you changed the name of your podcast ever? No. Same old thing. I've had three names for this podcast. What episode are you on, Jen?
[00:39:37.720] - Jen Lehner Don't ask that question. We're not going to... No, it's like my number one thing. I have to be more... Listen, ask me how many flash briefings I've done. I do those every single morning for five years. I never have missed one, okay? But my podcast- Every morning?
[00:39:54.870] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Every morning.
[00:39:55.470] - Jen Lehner Well, a weekend episode- Monday through Friday? Yeah, Monday through Friday. And then Friday one plays. When I record the Friday one, I say, Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, it's Jen Lehner with your front row entrepreneur flash briefing, Weekend Edition. Normally, I say the date, but for the weekend, it's Weekend Edition. So they hear that. They'll hear the same one Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and then I record Monday through Friday. That's amazing. Yeah. But nowhere near the number of podcast episodes you are. But that is going to change in 2025. I really am committed this year to my podcast because I love doing it.
[00:40:32.970] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Yeah.
[00:40:33.870] - Jen Lehner I just need every guest to be as amazing as you are.
[00:40:39.190] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Well, I'm sorry I set a high bar. The thing is, though, I joke, but you're right. I've had my podcast now for, oh, man, must be five-ish years. I'm on episode 391, I think.
[00:40:56.590] - Jen Lehner Bravo.
[00:40:58.290] - Teresa Heath-Wareing I have I've done every Monday. Ever since I started, never missed a week. Last year, I recorded three episodes and didn't put them out, three interviews and didn't put them out because I am getting... It's so easy to get like, Oh, just check another episode out, check another episode out. But I started to realize that a download can live and die on one episode. Someone can find your podcast on that one episode, listen to it and go, This is terrible. Because it wasn't a great episode. For me now, I do a solo and an interview. So one week a solo, one week an interview. I love that mix because I get to do really strategic direct stuff with the solos. I get to be like, do this, do this, do this. Then on the interviews, I get to have that conversation and be more inspirational or whatever. But with the interviews, they still have to give something. I still have to come away with something that my guests can go, Brilliant, and those three just didn't do it.
[00:42:02.340] - Jen Lehner Well, tell me how you handled that, because I've had that where the podcast just was not... They just didn't give what I needed them to give. I had one guest reveal, and this was so long ago, there's no way that he'll hear it, but he was actually in... Was it Gary Vaynerchuk? He was in Gary Vaynerchuk's book. Anyway, so I booked him on the podcast, and he revealed that he's a porn star.
[00:42:28.630] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Oh, wow.
[00:42:29.930] - Jen Lehner Or he was previously a porn star, and then he started talking. Anyway, it just got me so derailed. Anyway, the whole episode was really terrible. In that case, I think I just didn't publish it, and then I don't think I ever heard from him again. But I have had a couple of others where they did reach out, and I did have to say that I don't remember what I said. So you tell me, how do you handle that?
[00:42:55.470] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Well, I did not handle it well, so I just didn't put him out.
[00:43:00.090] - Jen Lehner Did they reach out to you and say, When is it being published or anything? No. Well, that's good. No. So maybe they don't even know.
[00:43:04.820] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Not yet. Maybe they don't know. The truth was, I didn't really know them that well. It was funny because I really enjoyed the conversation. But I'll tell you what the problem was. I record a hook at the beginning of each episode. So literally a minute where I go, on this episode, you're going to find out... And basically, it's the, not clickbait because it's real, but it's the why you should listen. I went do it on these three different episodes, couldn't even come up with a hook.
[00:43:33.770] - Jen Lehner Oh, that's telling.
[00:43:34.800] - Teresa Heath-Wareing I was like, if I can't come up with a one minute piece as to why you should listen, it's not worth listening to. I just thought, I can't. I can't put them out. But I have to say I am more strict than ever now, even though I have had so many episodes and I've had so many big people that without having them again, like I've had them, not that I'm running out of people, you're never running out of people, but I am so strict now in terms of who I have on and what I need from them and how I want them to show up for my audience. Because yes, some people give great conversation and great inspiration, but I still want them to be able to take something away from it. I want someone, if they land on that episode alone, then they'll go, This is awesome. This is great. I think that's the way I'm trying to think about it. The podcast is a big focus for me this year in terms of growth and how I grow it because it's like all things, Jen, it's much harder than it used to be.
[00:44:30.890] - Jen Lehner Yeah. But I'm having fun again in ways that... It's been a while since I've had this much fun because of AI, which we'll talk about on your podcast. But it's just fun again for me in ways that it hasn't been as fun.
[00:44:47.460] - Teresa Heath-Wareing And I love that. Yeah. That's important. And I think we miss that sometimes. We're busy in it doing the thing. And I think it's really important that when someone says to me, I should do this, and I go, Do you like it? And they go, No. I'm like, Why then? Why do you need to do it? Do something you like. I love that. I think we should find the fun.
[00:45:06.460] - Jen Lehner Except you still have to launch, even if you don't like it. You do still have to launch, yeah. You got to learn to like it, right?
[00:45:11.200] - Teresa Heath-Wareing But the different launch strategies, there is a launch strategy that fits with you that you like. The other thing is, you don't have to do all the thing, but you have to know you're not going to get the results that you want. I have people who literally go, I'm sending a couple of emails, I'll rock up on a thing, I'll do this, and their numbers are low, and that's all right. If that's what you want to do, crack on. That's great. But just don't expect the big launch numbers if you're not going to put in the big launch effort. If you're okay with that, then awesome. Do that all day long.
[00:45:43.710] - Jen Lehner Yeah. I want to say that even within launching, if you think you don't like launching, there are things that you will be able to figure out something that is fun for you. Maybe you don't like doing webinars, but you love doing... I've seen great It's just email challenges that people have put together, and it's just... When done well, even those can work.
[00:46:08.180] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Yeah, totally. Exactly. Just find a thing that you like. Like I made these other people, I was like, It's one hour. Just get on the webinar, smile. I was like, performing monkeys. Like, literally just do the thing and then look, oh, you had loads of money. Brilliant. Surely that's worth an hour of your time, right?
[00:46:25.990] - Jen Lehner Absolutely. And webinars are not dead, folks. Webinars are not dead.
[00:46:30.710] - Teresa Heath-Wareing No, no, no, no, no, no, definitely not.
[00:46:33.720] - Jen Lehner All right. Well, any other launch wisdom you want to share with us before we wrap up?
[00:46:40.360] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Okay, I'm going to give you one more thing, which I feel like I literally just did this on another episode. I didn't tell them the same thing, but it was like, I literally gave them this little thing at the end where I dropped it and they're like, Oh, no, I need to know more about that now. One of the things that's working really well, and this actually for you, Jen, could work really well, because I know you do stuff through ads. There is a number A number of people who this is working really successful where they're doing ads to a paid product where you go deep. You know how on a webinar we go broad? I'm going to talk about three things that are a problem, and I'm going to go broad about how to fix these various things, and I'm going to give examples of how to fix it, but it's broad. Paid webinars, paid workshops, and smaller paid products where you go deep on one thing. The end of last year in December, we're recording this in February, I did a paid workshop on how to do a webinar. Basically, get on and learn from the minute you turn the camera on to the minute you turn the camera off, what to say, how to say it, how to sell, how your slide should look, Even things like I gave them swipe files of how to get people to turn up live.
[00:47:50.410] - Teresa Heath-Wareing I gave them a workbook template. But basically, I went really deep on that one thing, but they had to pay for it. It was a 47 or £49 thing I actually did the workshop over a couple of sessions, even though I have done it before where I've just done a three-hour workshop, but I decided this time I was going to do an hour over a couple of days. I wasn't actually going to launch at the end of that. The whole idea was I was going to launch, but I was Life got in the way. I didn't get my course done, sorted, hadn't got a sales page, hadn't even started the course, nothing. But I thought to myself, Do you know what? I'm just going to offer it. So I did a really simple offer. At the end of it, I said, I wasn't going to launch anything, but I have got a course coming. This is what it's going to be. I literally only told them it. There was no page, nothing. I put it in the community because we had a community and said, I gave this offer. I then said to them, I'm going to send you three emails.
[00:48:43.870] - Teresa Heath-Wareing That's it. I think I had the car open for five days. I said, I'm not even going to do launch emails. I haven't written them yet. I'm going to send you three emails to remind you. That's it. I converted that at 25%.
[00:48:55.840] - Jen Lehner Wow. But you ran ads to...
[00:48:59.810] - Teresa Heath-Wareing So No, the whole thing. I did the webinar workshop only to my list, so they weren't massive numbers. It wasn't like hundreds and hundreds of people. But the good thing about the paid workshop is, one, you're going deep on a subject, so no one's signing up unless they want to know about that thing. For me, if someone wants to know what to say on a webinar and how to sell on a webinar, they are my customer. Two, they're paying, so they're automatically invested. I will have people, you will have people who rock up to our free stuff, and I love those people, and thank you so much for doing it, but they'll never buy. We know that. We know there are people that will come and never buy. Well, we know a huge percentage of them won't buy based on my numbers. But you don't get that because they've got to pay for it. It's really unlikely. You're still going to get some people who come along who it's a lower cost thing. They're like, Oh, I will pay for it and I'll do it later or whatever. But on the whole, people who are buying are more invested.
[00:49:55.000] - Teresa Heath-Wareing So even though your opt-in numbers at the... Imagine it, even though it's a paid thing, it is part of the launch. Your opt-in numbers and your people who are actually signing up is going to be way less than if you did a webinar. So be okay with that. That's fine, right? However, those people are way more engaged and you are giving them such good value because you are going deep. So you are going, this is how to do it. These are the steps you take. You're not... Again, I always like to do webinars that give people good things to go away with, but you're not going And the rest of that can be found in my course. On that particular thing, you are giving them everything they need. And then you're saying, so for me, I was able to say, the detail that I've given you on this bit of the webinar, I am going to give you for the entire launch phase. So I am going to tell you how to do this to build your audience, how to get visible. I'm going to give you a swipe file on the email you should send.
[00:50:54.660] - Teresa Heath-Wareing I'm going to tell you how to write your bio. I am going to tell you how to do a lead magnet, and I'm going to give you templates on how to do a lead magnet. I'm going to give you social media templates when you promote that lead magnet. I'm going to tell you what to write in a onboarding thing. Then I'm going to tell you how to launch, how to do a webinar, how to get people to turn up. Then what's to go on a sales page, how to sell, how to upsell, downsell, order bump. I'm going to do it at the same level I've done this thing. So if you think you need... Now, some people go, I just needed the webinar bit and I'm cool. Fine, great. They are very happy they've got a great product. But I was able to go, If this is of interest, then cool. Come and buy my thing.
[00:51:36.400] - Jen Lehner Not to mention, you just smashed the interview. If you're auditioning or this is your job interview with a potential client, you blew them away. You overdelivered. They paid $47, and you gave them $1,000 worth of content or more. A 100%. That is how my signature program, Front Row CEO, started as a paid workshop. It was $47, and people loved it. Then I had that I remember I chopped it up into bits at the end of it by topic and then made it into a product, into a little mini course as well. They got to keep that. Then I can't remember. But those were the first people who ended up buying the whole program.
[00:52:17.660] - Teresa Heath-Wareing There's two ways. One, the live workshop thing, but paid, but also adds to a paid product, so a mini course, but the course is genuinely real and good and helps them move the needle and then upsell to the full product.
[00:52:33.630] - Jen Lehner Love it. So good. And this works.
[00:52:36.490] - Teresa Heath-Wareing At the very least, your product that you're selling is paying for your ads. So it's paying for your list building. That's a low cost. Nothing more than 47. I would say I've seen them at all different levels, but like 27, 19, nothing less than 19. I'd go 19 to 47. Then whoever's buying that is helping pay to get people on your ads. Then when I interviewed Julie Solomon, she uses this strategy, and I'm sure she said to me that she has an order bump and she has a 75% take up on her order bump.
[00:53:10.820] - Jen Lehner Love that.
[00:53:12.130] - Teresa Heath-Wareing That is then helping it actually make money from it rather than just covering the ask.
[00:53:17.030] - Jen Lehner Wow, that's a huge conversion. Wow. Okay. Well, you just dropped so many gold nuggets for us today. Thank you so much, Teresa. This is just amazing. I'm going to listen to this episode and take a ton of notes. Well, I have the transcript, but yeah, you've really got my brain firing, so really appreciate it. It's always nice to spend time with you. Thank you.
[00:53:43.610] - Teresa Heath-Wareing Thank you, Jen. Thank you so much for having me.
