SHOWNOTES
“We’ve been worried about what other people think since day one.”
Susie Moore is the author of the recently published book "Stop Checking Your Likes: Shake Off the Need for Approval and Live an Incredible Life" and she walks the talk.
Susie has great insights on:
Screening the raves and critical reviews.
Not giving away our power to others.
Why rejection isn’t negative. I promise this will make sense when you hear how Susie explains it.
The story we make up is just that. A story we make up.
There’s no tapping out of opportunities; no one person or thing is defining.
Understanding the cause and effect of being stuck. (game-changer)
Using COVID as a reason to not do the scary thing. Susie has great advice that’s not what I expected.
Susie also shares some of the criticism she’s received for promoting her book during this time. It ties to a great section in the book about being defensive. In our podcast conversation, she breaks it down. I know you’ll find this helpful.
Hear Susie’s unique definition of confidence. I love it. It’s also connected to her love of cemeteries. Trust me, this all makes sense when you hear her explain it.
RESOURCES
Checking Your Likes: Shake Off the Need for Approval and Live an Incredible Life
TRANSCRIPT
00:03 (Gary Vee)Hey guys, it's Gary Vaynerchuk and you're listening to the Front Row Entrepreneur Podcast with our girl, Jen.
Jen Lehner:
00:14 Our guest today is a Miami-based life coach and author. She's been featured on the today show, refinery 29 Forbes, oprah.com and many other prestigious and fabulous places. She's got a brand spanking new book called stop checking your likes, shake off the need for approval and live an incredible life, which I just finished reading today and not wait to talk about. Welcome Susie Moore.
Susie Moore:
00:38 Thank you so much Jen. I am. I've been looking forward to this conversation for ages, so thank you for having me back on your show.
Read more...
Jen Lehner:
00:44 Thanks for coming and yes, you are the first person who has ever been on this podcast twice, which I think basically means we need to start a show together all right now because I have had the privilege of spending time with you in real life and also in your online community. After reading this book, what I thought immediately was like, this is one of those situations where without a doubt, I know for a fact that you walk the talk, like everything you talk in the book, you lead by it. You definitely lead in the way that you exemplify in the way that you live your life. Wow.
Susie Moore:
01:24 Thank you for saying so I've had some, some feedback like that. It means a lot to me because I mean, it's kind of, it's kind of important that we do that, right?
Jen Lehner:
01:32 Absolutely. I mean, but it's, it's, um, it's one thing to say that that's something good to do and it's one thing to actually do it, you know? I mean, I can't tell you how many times I'm like with my own students or clients where I'm like, okay, do as I say, not as I do, do not look and have what a mess my content calendar is like, you need to do it better, but really do it. And like there's, you have, um, you have an ease about you and you're, you're really chill and your mantra is let it be easy. And, and it's more we're going to get to that. But I think in this book you really, you took let it be easy and you just put miracle grow on it. And so it's sprouted. All these amazing inspirational ideas and it's called stop checking your likes. But it's not about social media is it? No,
Susie Moore:
02:26 no. I mean some people think it's a social media book and, but that's cool. Frankly it's getting me a little great media entities because social media is so topical. But I mean social media I think is just the reason I called it this is because social media has just become this very modern measurement of, you know, us giving our power away. You know, like other people liking us. That being the thing and getting the validation from outside of us. But there's really nothing new here. Social media isn't the enemy. We've been worrying about whether people think since day one. So, but yeah, I just think that the social media just kind of makes it easier 24 seven to always have to how well everyone thinks we're doing. And then, you know, access to the insights of what other people are doing and the good stuff that they share.
Jen Lehner:
03:06 And so your, your big message is, I mean, in a nutshell, I think what the big message is, my takeaway from the book is that our mind is super powerful and as you say in the book, our minds can be our enemy or our minds can be our best friend. And it's all about how we talk to ourselves and how we choose to look at things. And that reality is really only what we tell ourselves, sort of what reality is. And, and what I love is that you give a really actionable practices at the end of every chapter for looking at things in a new light. Get this book for that person in your life that, that, I don't know. I really think the young woman in your life, the graduate, this is the perfect graduation gift. So you talk a lot about, so I want to talk about some of these actionable practices. So one of the things that you do to sort of control, I don't know, the environment in your life or the or yeah, control your environment is that you don't, your assistant screens, your positive, like your, your, the emails that come in where people are gushing over you and also the negative emails. Why do you do that? Why?
Susie Moore:
04:19 Well, it wouldn't be quite fair to only see the good, right? When you put, when you think about it, I mean, I have a right to say and do what I want someone is, I'm not intentionally hurting anybody else. I have in a complete freedom of expression. We all do. And that doesn't just get to stop with me. Right? I mean, if I want to share a piece about, you know, my life, which has been advice or some tips, you know, whatever coming from my heart, I'm allowed to do that. And then people are allowed to like it or dislike it, you know, thumbs up or thumbs down, whatever it may be, depending on the platform that you're on. And I just think it would be a really kind of wolfed well to be in if I only wanted to hit the positive, the good.
Susie Moore:
04:55 I feel like it would skew me in the same way it would even ski me if I had a lot of new criticism. Often when I've received criticism in the moment I thought, Oh my gosh, I think I've done the wrong thing. You know, maybe I've shed too much or maybe I didn't present it in the right way for people to understand it cause I misunderstanding what it is I'm saying and I feel as if now the way that I look at it is I have a right to speak and then when it wants, I've put up my book, then then my walk is finished and then everyone else can respond to how they wish. And then it's up to me if I want to listen to it all or almost listen to none of it. Versus just kind of being selective. It just doesn't feel quite honest.
Jen Lehner:
05:33 So then how do you get feedback or does it, it just doesn't matter.
Susie Moore:
05:38 Yeah, it's interesting. I mean sometimes, I mean you can't help and the thing right, you can't help but see feedback and hear feedback all the time because there are always people in your life and there are so many channels. I think that it's great to get information to get, you know, insights from what people would like more of or what is particularly, you know, like trending. If there's a PC per tap, maybe it has the most views, the most engagement at shed the most. That's great data. You know, it's like, Oh well some people are really interested in this topic, but really, I mean that's enough, right? We don't need to know everybody's deepest opinions of all. Well and not every opinion is frankly equal. You know, the way that I consider the feedback that I get, any opinions that people share with me, I didn't write them all the same.
Susie Moore:
06:19 So I focus on what it is that I think is important and frankly out because I want to create from the space within me. I think that's kind of something that we abdicate very easily. We're like, great, what does everybody else want? Like what's popular? Like how can we, you know, jump onto something that's the thinking of what you know, really speaks to me right now. What is the, what's, what's the thing that I know that I need other people to know? So I think it's really good to be self directed creatively when you can be.
Jen Lehner:
06:46 So we'll back to the feedback and maybe the negative feedback. You talk a lot about rejection in the book. There's a whole talk about rejection.
Susie Moore: 06:56 Yes. Rejection. I love to talking about rejection because everybody's so scared of it. Jen.
Jen Lehner: 07:02 It's like I don't like it personally. I am anti rejection. Get up, put that out here. Well, I don't
Susie Moore:
07:10 anybody who would agree with me when they, you know, when I say I, you know, rejections. Absolutely. Okay. I mean, it doesn't feel good. It's not like, you know, we're walking around looking for opportunities to be rejected. I mean, we're not gluttons of just need to be punishing ourselves all the time. But when you think about it, like what is rejection really? I mean, I really, I do like to break it down and I book and I speak a lot about my own rejections. If my background before I started working for myself, I was a sales director in a tech company and it was selling like selling is the ultimate job. I mean, if you want to be rejected, like selling cold selling specifically is the job that you would go into. So I think understanding that rejection is just such an illusion. We create such a story around it. We make it possible. Egos will have us believe that it's really about us and that this is like a deep emotional, like a disc that we getting when often someone's just too busy. It's not the right time. Maybe it's not the right fit at that moment. So what?
Jen Lehner:
08:09 So what, and you know, I think you could even look at it as an opportunity I suppose. I remember when I was in sales, like in the very beginning of my career I had to cold call people one after the other and I just had like a list. Like it was like the chamber of commerce list or something. And at that same time I read some sales gurus somewhere say that it takes roughly 10 nos to get a yes. So every know that you get be so thankful. So thank you. Thank you for telling me. No, because now I'm so much closer to the yes and I've, I've held onto that my whole life and even now when I need, you know, when I'm trying to fill up a coaching program or whatever, I remember this and I, and that's, that's sort of the
Susie Moore:
08:56 way that I need to look at it before I pick up the phone. Not really the phone, but yes. Yeah, absolutely. I mean think about to any success is any success story, any successful event is like littered with a whole lot of rejection before it can come to fruition. Like, but the final result that we want, and I pitched myself a lot of the media, I'm successful doing that because the rejections don't, I'm not afraid of them whatsoever. I reject rejection. I like to joke about that. Um, and I just, I don't have this expectation that it's not going to happen to me. Right. The problems that we have, it just so related to our expectation of how it's just meant to work out the exact way that we want on our exact timing and like selling being, you know, being out there succeeding anything is such a context.
Susie Moore:
09:38 Boy, it's such a game. It's such a volume. I mean, when you think about anybody who's achieved anything, great. If you really speak to them or know them well, you know that their story is kind of listed with rejections, failures, mistakes. And I feel like anytime I'm kind of rejected, I remember the look at me. I'm doing something I courageous, you know, and I remember that it's not personal. It would be absolutely at the, in my ego think that it was about me and the, you know, this was like a terrible thing all about me and I just give it a lot of perspective and just think, yeah, next. And I think with experience too, by understanding that rejection just isn't even real in a lot of cases that then you'll bounce back rate from a disappointment or rejection just gets, you know, quicker and quicker.
Susie Moore:
10:24 What do you mean it's not real? Well, think about it, right? Like, okay, if somebody pitched you for your podcast, you know Jen and you say you're already booked for a while and you said, you know what, I caught the moment. But thanks. Are you looking at that past and saying, Oh my gosh, they're a noxious. I would never have them on my show. What can I do to upset them? Like what? Like this person is absolutely unthinkable to have anywhere near near my business. Like, do you have like a whole story around it? I do not. I do not. I don't think about it for two seconds actually. Right. But so then have you rejected them or have you just kind of shed, it's not the right timing. Yeah, the ladder. Right. So, but, but you know, kind of all those things that, that kind of story.
Susie Moore: 11:07 Oh my gosh, she thinks I'm not just, she thinks I'm terrible. She's what we knew we could do that. Oh, we do that so well Jen. Like we can totally like step into this narrative around this person and that person and we keep it in our memory back when we love to story, don't read the people who've rejected us and they don't even remember you like your name in the inbox. I mean half of the perspective. And frankly like calm down that ego of yours. Often we think it's like, Oh, you know, I'm rejected. Pull me. That's really us at all was making everything about us because the world has to revolve around us. Right? And everyone's is trying to hurt us. No, no one's obsessed with you. Everyone's just doing them. They're just trying to make it through the week, you know, like not gain weight, pay the visa bell, not fight with their husband. You know, we're all just doing all best. I would not purposely or rejecting people. It's not like this game. Who can I reject? I mean it's just, it's just not how it is. But the way that we interpret it and the story we attach becomes a rejection, which then kind of becomes this spiral, which we then attached to our worthiness. And it really just holds us back.
Jen Lehner:
12:09 So true. It's so true. I mean, we just have to remember that like people are so caught up in themselves, they're really, they're not paying attention to us. It's sad.
Susie Moore:
12:18 I mean, it's really funny. Yeah. And I think that the salespeople specifically, good salespeople really get this and it's almost like they have a bit of a Bulletproof like bubble around them that just kind of, yup. Yup. No worries. Yep. Next. And the thing is, Jen, there is never a limit or a uh, a time you, you tap out your opportunities either. It's not like this one person has to say yes to me or that one person. It's endless. Like it's limitless what was there for us. And I think that festivals are really healthy to remember too.
Jen Lehner:
12:47 Yeah. Cause I think it's easy to say, well I tried and I got shot down. So
Susie Moore:
12:53 do you have any other TV stations that are all, have many other media outlets? Have many men or women that are all to date? Hello there, there is a little out there for you. No one person or thing or decision is a song like the source of your good there. There is so much out there. It's a very abundant world.
Jen Lehner: 13:09 And also want to talk about what you said, which I thought you talked about so brilliantly about when you maybe will have a client in your coaching practice or you've talked to someone and they're like, well I'm, I'm blocked. Or maybe there was a time when you felt like you were blocked. What does talk about this being blocked business. Oh, I love this. I'm happy
Susie Moore: 13:30 I wrote this up, Jen. Well, being a blocked ha. Well, think about it. If you look at any traditional psychology model, there's the cause and effect, right? So I can't make a decision or someone doesn't support my decision. For example, let's just say someone says, you know, I, I'm, I, I blocked him stock. I really want to start a business that my husband won't let me. He's not supportive, right? So the causes, the husband, the effect is the no business, right? Nothing's happening. Well, I like to do is I like to flip it and I say, Hmm, maybe starting a business requires some courage and some work that involves you just to kind of step up. And that's kind of a bit daunting. So you're going to blame your husband, right? Whatever our excuse is like, if we could flip the calls in effect, even momentarily, we'll realize that whatever calls we have in decisions, someone not supporting us, there being a limit that we believe about ourselves.
Susie Moore:
14:27 The secret benefit of being stuck is that we don't have to do anything right. It kind of, and it's very justifiable to the world. It's like, no, look, I can't start a side hustle cause I've got kids. You all, my husband doesn't support me or I can't possibly, you know, trust, you know, a man or a woman. Cause my parents had been, you know, ugly divorce, whatever it is. But if that were true, if the cools in effect were true, if the staying stuck were real, then because you know, being stuck, just say the actually was legitimate. You were stuck then that would mean that anybody else, you whose husband didn't support them, who had kids whose parents had a difficult divorce, didn't do the thing. I bet every single person in history
Susie Moore: 15:05 and there are plenty of people who started businesses without support. Plenty of people who've done it without money. Plenty of people whose parents had a rough divorce and they have happy marriages, whatever it is that we think is like the thing that's keeping us stuck. However good the excuse sounds and justifiable to other people. It's just our excuse for not taking some courage and doing the thing that we want.
Jen Lehner:
15:24 So do you think that right now, this moment that we're in, are you seeing a lot, I'm seeing a lot of this, I was going to launch my course, but coven, I was going to open up, you know, a group coaching program, but you know coven. Yes. Yeah. And I received an email from someone that said, are you going to make your membership program free now because of COBIT, I've decided that, you know, I'm going to spend this time working on myself and I'm going to make my membership site free. You know, just, it's just very interesting to me. What do you, what do you think?
Susie Moore:
16:06 Yeah, I mean, well festival, it's completely it, you know, unique personal decision if you think, but now isn't the right time. That's cool. So long as you don't want a victimized place about it. Right. Not like, Oh well I was going to do this whole thing, but I'm being held back. That's a very different energy to, you know what, I'm going to put this in the calendar for, you know, say June 15. That feels really good.
Jen Lehner:
16:26 Next. Right. That's, it's like having this, you know, again, like a story and uh, you know, justifying it and then reveling in the fact secretly that we're not, you don't have to do any work right now. Right. You know which one you're in. Like we know which bucket before the one, but it's like the victimization bucket or the one that's like, okay, great, I've made a better strategic decision and then the internal by doing something else.
Jen Lehner:
16:47 Yeah. And you know, it, it's, and, and I don't even know if it's victimization bucket, like, like for me, I would imagine that it's the relief that comes when you have a tough meeting, even in, even if it's a great opportunity and you're getting ready to pitch a go in front of somebody who's a really big deal, or you're about to give a keynote, but you're really terrified, right. And then it gets rescheduled and you're secretly relieved because you're like, Oh, I'm off the hook. I know that feeling all too well and I think that's might be the place where a lot of us are coming from as it relates to this crisis that we're in because it's sort of like we're giving ourselves permission and we're a little bit off the hook because I mean, you know what can you do? Like you're stuck in your house.
Susie Moore:
17:33 Yeah. But also like you know what's wrong with that? Enjoy some relief for the meanwhile enjoy a break. I mean the thing is probably whatever is, it was scaring you. It's going to happen just a little bit later down the line. Right. So enjoy the period of not doing it for awhile. Like why not make the most of, have a situation you're given, like, you know, making the most of it for yourself. There's nothing wrong with that. I think it is only tricky, but we, when you know, we w we say we will going to do something and then it's not possible because of you know, an external circumstance and then kind of secretly knowing that there is something that we could be doing or maybe using this as like, Oh gosh I didn't want to do it anyway. You know, so this is, Oh no, come play me now.
Susie Moore:
18:14 So in any such a a possible decision and when it comes to the piece around kind of, you know, discounting your prices or giving things away for free. I've been seeing this too. Don't think it's sustainable. And I mean who knows how long this is all going to be drawn out and nothing good happens Jen, in any economy when money stops circulating, you know, this is so true. Nothing, nothing good happens. And Oh and by the way, I've had lots of criticism too, cause I've of course been promoting my book. I have my evergreen funnels running. Am I have people tell me stuff like I should just be saving the wall. They shouldn't be talking about book. I should be making face balls. I mean that's what my special, I still like, you don't feel like I smile. My homemade face. Masjid Japanese. Let me tell you, I'm going to get opinions, but frankly there's nothing new here because we get opinions all the time anyway.
Jen Lehner:
19:04 You know, I'm so glad you said this because I want to talk about a, I think one of the most powerful parts of the book is the way that you speak to the haters. I'm not even the hitters just being defensive. Like let's talk about being defensive. So when you do get that, the people telling you should be making face basket or you should be charging or God, you should not be promoting your book. You know what, what do you, do you get defensive. Do you, do you email them back and give them bullet points as to why this is?
Susie Moore:
19:34 I don't, I mean maybe some people do that because they can be F I have my M uh, like forgiven, delete or don't delete. Sometimes I like to leave my hate comments up just because other people can see them. And then if they get hate comments, they won't feel so bad. So I don't care about that. And I definitely do not defend myself. I mean, that's a great line in a course in miracles, this, you know, spiritual text that says in my defenselessness my safety lies. And when I was, if I started saying it's taken me three years to create this book, you know, and this is a launch window and I'm not doing anything wrong and it's only, you know, $15 I mean that would be my ego. Right? And that would be like me fighting with somebody who I don't know, who clear doesn't care about me or know me. And that would then make me the positive who's not cool. Like that would kind of, yeah.
Jen Lehner:
20:22 And you talk about how it's, it's that it's 100% of the time that is about them, not about you.
Susie Moore: 20:29 Oh my gosh. When I realized this, Jen, everything changed for me in my life. Everything changed me and my life. When I realized that every single, every single thing without one exception is a projection, good and bad. Again, you consciously apply it to the body, you have to eat. It also applied to the good. And it's so interesting because in the book I actually cut mentioned a couple of specific examples. Just way you can kind of see this in action. And one example was when, you know, I was writing a column when I turned 30 about your life lessons. I've, you know, I've learned by the age of 30, 30 lessons and I asked friends in my thirties, you know, what lessons have you learned? I want it to make it really good. And I had these following pieces of advice. One girl said, definitely no carbohydrates off to TPM, right?
Susie Moore:
21:14 Not good luck. Might be another girl said, uh, get health insurance. Definitely get health insurance while you're young. Um, somebody else said you don't know if that children like, it's really important to know because around that age, you know, sometimes that can be pressure. And then somebody else gave me some skincare advice, medical me, skincare advice. And the first girl he said about the carbohydrates was a form of fitness model. The person who spoke about the getting health insurance young, she's a very savvy financial investor. She's all about like maximizing money. The thought is this, like this badass woman who really teaches women to be unapologetic about the choices. And a fourth comes to my friend who's a beauty blogger. So do you see like one, so interesting perspectives, but all coming from a very unique bias. And look, we all have our biases and we're confounding a biases all the time. And that's cool, right? There's nothing wrong with that. It's just good to like give it a dose of perspective when you're listening to somebody's opinion because you have to think what's happened to this person who is this person and then kind of see it through that lens too.
Jen Lehner:
22:15 Yeah, I love that. I think, can you say that quote? Can you repeat the quote from a course of miracles again? I really like that.
Susie Moore: 22:22 Oh yes. In my defense thisness my safety lies
Jen Lehner:
22:26 and you know, I love that. And there's, there's another quote and it's been, it makes me so mad that I didn't write it down back when I heard it. Cause I only, I can't really say it correctly, but it's something like the first words, like the first words you utter in defense is the first step in offense. Something like that's the minute that you begin to defend yourself. That is when the conflict begins. Right? And if you just let it drop, then
Susie Moore:
22:56 yes. And there's nothing more disarming than just being completely defenseless. You know? And sometimes even if somebody is criticizing you or doesn't agree with you, you can still find some commonality with that person, you know? And you can still say, you know what, you're right about that. Like whatever it may be to an extent. And I mean I don't, you don't want to live our lives in conflict, right? For us, we can't avoid it in some cases. So defending yourself also just feels a bit like, ah, exhausting, boring. And then it starts to feel a bit cheap, right. With all the back and forth over the wall. I'm accurate because it's like, Oh, come on, don't we all have creative things to get to? And you know, even the person who's attacking you can almost even in that moment have some compassion too because people don't attack or criticize if they're feeling good.
Jen Lehner:
23:40 Yeah. I think this is a next level thing that, you know, I don't think I've had, I completely have this mastered. I mean, I, you know, but I'm definitely more thoughtful about it now. I think it's definitely something to strive for. I think that you have definitely mastered this. You know, that inclination that if you're, you know, I think about if I'm in an argument with my husband, I want to be right. And it's like it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be important to be right all the time. So I'm getting better. Yeah.
Susie Moore:
24:11 We're all getting faster all the time. Right. There's always a kind of next level to aspire to. But if you think about it, you know, being, having, not defending yourself, not needing to be right, it's easier on you. It's easier on your emotional energy, right? Cause when you're in this kind of defensive mode, I think about it just like your blood pressure, your nervous system. Right. I don't want to put myself through too much stress. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Interestingly, actually somebody recently kind of did something, but my husband wasn't cool and he's like, do you think we should bring it up? And I said, you know what? Okay, we talked it out. And I was like, well, well you know, what is it you think? Why is this upsetting you? And he was like, well, I just don't think it's fair. And we talked it out and I said, you know, I, I wouldn't bring it up because I know that that's actually going to get a cause more emotional stress for you. If you do, then if you don't, and if you think there's somebody who's not like a cool friend, what they're doing isn't cool, then maybe you can just kind of reassess that silently on your own without kind of engaging in something. And I think if you can ever remove an opportunity for stress, then why not do that?
Jen Lehner:
25:11 And that's, I guess that's when it's really good to write like that, that letter and then, and then you throw the letter away. You know, to this point of having an argument because, or having to be right. In my case. Why do you say that? Saying it's my fault is a good thing.
Susie Moore:
25:34 Oh, it's the best thing. Which sounds completely counterintuitive. Well, if you think about it, if anything is ever anybody else's fault, which then causes it causes a negative result in your life or just the result that you don't want, then then we'll like, then what can happen next? Right? I mean if anyone external is to blame for the things that happened to us, then we can live in this kind of state of fear like, Oh, I hope it doesn't happen again. Right? I have nobody wrongs me. I hope nobody huts me bus saying, Oh my gosh, why let this pass it into my life and maybe they took advantage of me. That's my fault. I'm going to be more careful with my boundaries. I'm open a lot of people who do that to me in my life anymore. Just realizing we have so much college and right.
Susie Moore:
26:18 Like I speak about being divorced, being married to an addict and how it'd be so easy to have so much blame, you know, and to be like, well he did this and he spent all the money and you know, I married him, I married him, I stayed after, I knew he was an addict and I know addiction too, cause I lost my father to it, but I, you know, I thought maybe just have, it can be different, it can change. It's very, very common. But then I had to say, you know what, he's not hurting me. I'm hurting myself all the time is you know, marriages can end. This is up to me. Like I'm a grown ass woman and so if I just shifted all the blame to him and this can happen in any life situation, you know, big and small, then what?
Susie Moore: 26:57 Then I'd be living in this state of, you know, everything's happening to me, everything's happening to me. I'm the one in control and powerless. Yes. And when we take off, we were like, yep, my fault. Got it. Then what you won't do it again or if you want to, you'll take, you know, you'll take responsibility for that for whatever reason that you have. But yeah, it's like when we kind of give away, like give away all public giveaway on decision making, you know, uh, the ability to do that. Then we'll like what type of life is that?
Jen Lehner:
27:25 But what about the, so how do you, um, how do you apply that to the stuff in your life that really isn't your fault? Like you, you know, you, you grew up in homeless shelters, your dad was an alcoholic. You, you know, you, you had a rough road, which of course you talk about in the book and it's, it's amazing the way that you, I don't know the way that you view all that so that, that wasn't your fault. So in those cases, what, what do you say to the person who's like, well, I had an alcoholic dad, or, well, not, you know, this or the other.
Susie Moore:
27:55 Yeah, I mean, it's a very good question. And that all things that we can't control, right? There are times in life when we are victimized, when we do like we are actually powerless, right in whatever moment it may be. That's true. The way that I believe that I interpreted it, which brings me freedom and forgiveness and relief and think of just the wonderful feelings associated with those three things. Is that yes. So you know, alcoholic Baba, you know, unstable kind of mother moving around a lot. It's true. I had no choice. I just had to like roll with it and just try and stay safe and just, you know, do, do what I could for my family. I wanted to bring joy to them when I could, but like, but what now what now then like as a adult woman who doesn't live with my family, who has control over my life, like even how I interpret and remember my father and how I communicate with my mother who has a very own unique way of living is up to me.
Susie Moore:
28:49 You know, and my dad was bizarre. Like I, you've read the stories and I speak about him smoking pot with him when I was a teenager. Him having her cause at home. I mean he always, he was kind of, I mean, very unpredictable, very real character. I have such good memories of him, Jen. Like I tell stories about him. He was, he was really well educated. He gave me a little opinion, wisdom and that's what I'm, that's what I held on to and that's my choice. Right. And that's completely my Palla and so I'm, there's nothing, there's no victimization within me because of that. I feel like I was given, you know, a father who was complicated, but I hadn't, there were a lot of lessons, a lot of gifts that I learned early and it's made me wise and strong.
Jen Lehner:
29:32 Yeah, I love it. Yeah, because you talk about, you, you sort of, you know, are very matter of fact, but you know, in the way that you, that you share some of these things, but it's very clear that you got so many gifts from both your parents and that there's, you know, definitely deep, deep love and respect in spite of, you know, their own struggles and that they were dealing with. And when you on the podcast the first time, and I don't know where I heard this story, I don't know if I read it in an article or if I heard you on a podcast where you told the story and it's not in this book, but you told the story of little Susie who got free lunch and the school had this ridiculous like giant token that made it so obvious to all your little pals that you were free lunch and you set up a meeting with the headmaster and said, look dude, I have a solution for you. And after you gave him this, you presented him with this solution, they put it into practice. And so this started in you aspiring you at an early age. Yes. I mean,
Susie Moore:
30:40 what's it like when you all ask, and I have a whole chapter in the book, we're all asking what can be available to you. It's pretty amazing. I mean, why not off like think about it? Why? Why shouldn't we be entitled to good things for life to be easier as a child who has something to be less embarrassing? You know, why can't we ask? I mean, Aussie I think is such a strength. It's perceived as a weakness so much of the time. And it takes courage, right? It takes something with a need to believe that you are deserving to us of something you know, to awesome thing. This is why it's so hard for a perfectionist to ask because in a perfectionism has nothing to do if I stand as it's all about failure, anxiety. So it's like, what is it that we can be asked for?
Susie Moore:
31:19 I mean, I, I sometimes Jen, like I do things to make myself uncomfortable just so I'm still in this kind of offing filets and what I've realized, and this is kind of the, the best, like most in way that I can say it, is that what I've realized about confidence is that it's far more simple than we think. We think that, you know, a confident person has to be somebody who is, you know, like really charismatic or an amazing speaker who can, you know, like really dominate a group and just be so funny or like, you know, whatever it may be. But confidence is quiet in that quieter than that. And it's actually kind of even more elegant than that in a way. And it's just the ability and therefore the willingness. Right? So the willingness and the ability to experience negative emotion, that's it. That's all it is.
Jen Lehner:
32:07 That's amazing. Is one of the, one of the things that you do to get a uncomfortable, was that the Chanel store? Yeah. Please sell it. That's one of my stories. Yeah. I mean, I do weird things all the time.
Susie Moore:
32:19 When I, when I was a teenager, I worked at a department store right where they, and I was selling fine fragrance. One of those kind of ladies, like, would you like a softball? Like would you like a shreds? And I thought that was pretty cool. But you know, Chanel, the, the, the house, the Chanel fragrance brand, they never give anything away. And they're never on promotion. Unlike the other brands, you know, once every, always if you go to any department store, they'll always be one fragrance house on promotion like SAP. Oh that Clara is like whoever it is never on promotion and they never give anything away. And so now if I go to a department store, I still no lady, old guy. If I can have a sample of something or if they can give me a discount if I'm purchasing and I know that that bill shut me down, I know that it will be a rejection.
Susie Moore:
33:04 Like they'll say no but this receive rejection and I do it just if possible. I mean why not? Like I have fun with this. My husband's always like rolling his eyes at me, but he's used to me now and I just think, why not? Like why not make myself feel uncomfortable? I feel like it keeps me strong. It keeps me in a place of, yeah, see that happened. Nothing, no big deal. No big deal. And I think that being able to experience negative emotion, right? Uncomfortable emotion, rejection, humiliation, like whatever it is as the only mock of a confident person because what would you Jen, what wouldn't you do if you, like if you knew that a negative emotion was just a temporary feeling in your body and it would pass and you can live with it and the worst thing that can happen to you is just a feeling like with that perspective, I mean this is, this is the truth, right?
Susie Moore:
33:49 Like what's the worst thing that can happen? No one's going to like come to you and like slice your face with a knife. I mean like what is the thing that we're fearing? I mean, as human beings we will do anything to avoid pain. You know, like we don't ask for things. We didn't go for it. We don't put ourselves out there. We think smaller, we think safer, whatever that even means. And because the idea of experiencing a negative emotion for a while is so terrifying. But did you like, Ooh, it's a feeling. It'll pause to say my positive feelings. Do Ben wa then what wouldn't you do?
Jen Lehner:
34:18 Which you know, brings us to the way that you always make sure like the fact that you're going to die. It's like front and center and it's, you know, and I feel the same way I have to say like that, you know that that's my whole, that's the whole thinking behind the front row that like life is short. You got to do it now. You've got to seize the moment. You have to, you know, what's the worst that can happen. And I want to read like these two paragraphs from, from the book if you don't mind. And it's, it's about lightening up and it's in the chapter of something about comedy, colored glass, comedy colored glasses. I love this. Okay, so can we throw on some comedy colored shades and lighten up a little and just not take everything so seriously. Life isn't meant to be one great big white knuckle ride.
Jen Lehner:
35:12 It can be a hilarious adventure. It's not something to be endured until you make it to the bitter end, hopefully as unscathed as possible. I love what Joan Rivers said. Life goes by so fast. Enjoy it. Calm down. It's all funny. Next, everyone gets so upset about the wrong things and quote, guess what? Death has 100% success rate. It's coming for all of us the next time you need a reality, go to the graveyard. I'm being serious. I love cemeteries. They remind me that everything is temporary. Right now. A picture of a beautiful church cemetery in England is the screensaver on my phone. So the next time I want to freak out because I have to wait a full seven minutes for a subway train. Those weather beaten 18th century headstones can bring me back to earth. Amen sister. Oh amen. Thank you for reading that. Yes, I love cemeteries.
Susie Moore:
36:06 Oh, I just love, even when we drive five my teeth look graveyard. I love that they bring me so much common perspective and I think it's good to reflect on the temporary nature of your life.
Jen Lehner:
36:16 I mean it's true. I, I personally am so freaked out by death. Like, I don't want to die and I get freaked out when I think I'm going to, but at the same time, I do think about it a lot in terms of like, we're like, we're talking about that it's, you know, we're not, we don't have an infinite amount of time to make stuff happen until to live the life that we, that we're dreaming about. Like now is the time to create that life. And, and you also say fake it until you become it. What does that mean?
Susie Moore:
36:43 Yes. Well think about it, right? If I was like this expression, fake it till you make it. It's using coaching. Sometimes I don't really like it because what is faking it? It means doing it right. Like think about it. If you think, you know, I'm going to fake it as a public speaker until I make it, I'm going to fake it. As a marathon runner, if you a public speaker, if you've run a marathon, that's what you are. That's what you've become so much. Right? It's not like, you know, making it, it's like you cheated your whole way there. It's like, no, you're doing it. You're doing the thing until you become it. And that's what we all have to begin. And so why do you think you have to be perfect right out of the gate? Like where to be? They get this idea, but you know, imposter syndrome, I mean, yes, it's real for all of us, especially high achieving women.
Susie Moore:
37:28 But I mean it's okay to feel like I'm uncomfortable doing this. I'm not ready yet. That's normal. It's just that the freedom can come when you're like, yet this is how it's supposed to feel. You know what I'm experiencing is very, very normal. And you know what? I'm willing to be bad at something. I'm willing to be bad at something new, like I'm willing to experience the negative emotion here. Then again, thinking about what is it you would go for, what it is you wouldn't kind of rule out of your life because you're not capable of doing it really confidently immediately. And then the more things you do, the more you kind of realize, wow, I'm like becoming a lot of things right. Let's go crush that. You didn't, maybe I'm an author, maybe I'm a business owner, maybe I'm a rock climber. Like what ever it may be, the things that you've become just through, through action, it's, it's wonderful and you don't have to, you can, you can just start very small and be okay with that and not expect anything too great to false.
Jen Lehner:
38:16 It's so true. And like nobody's first blog post was any good and nobody's first podcast episodes are good. I cringe. And all my early content and like last week's content probably, you know, it's just, yeah, I mean you, we have to start somewhere. So
Susie Moore:
38:36 fake it until you become it. Yes. I mean, think about you become the things and life is just this big process of becoming anyway, isn't it? So I think the important thing is to relax a little bit throughout the whole process because I swear like Jen, I mean, everyone's like hustle, right? Like what's the ice bleed? Like strive, you know, like unless, unless you're, you know, unless you're not sleeping, I feel sleeping more before I was a day, you'll like doing it wrong. And I just don't think that that's true. I think that you know, the universe supports us. It's, it can be easier than we think. Like think about the things that arrived in your life or business that came to you. Right. We so easy. It's so easy to discount the things that we easy. Right. And to think I know let's focus on all the hard things I have to do and the fact that this pot isn't walking off that pot, my business isn't working. I mean when we pay attention, a lot of good things flow to us and I think that we notice that it's, it's pretty awesome. What was the text that your coach sent you that you kept on your phone for so long?
Susie Moore:
39:41 It was like something like nothing will exhaust me more than trying to chase around the person I already am trying to become the person I already am. Sort of like maybe the whole Dorothy thing, like you had the power in you all along. It's true. It's like if we are kind of hustling and striving and doing all the things all the time, just approve all worthiness because that's what it is, Jen. Like whatever it is. If we think that we want or we what we think is missing or whatever the problem is, if we just keep saying, okay and then we'll, and then we'll, and then we'll get like deeper and deeper into it. It always comes down to this issue of Levinas and yeah, the texts or my coach, he, he sent it to me cause I remember a time I couldn't relax. I was like, Oh, there's just so much to do and I'm not getting the results I want yet.
Susie Moore:
40:26 And you know, I want to, I was in a phase of like willing to do a lot of things just to like prove, like prove that I was doing the things, you know, and look at me, you know, I'm a hero. They hit doing little things and he said, yeah, the texts was something like nothing will exhaust me out more thoroughly and more quickly than trying to become like something that I already am like meaning what? And that's, I think that Jen, like if we could understand that all bloodiness is just fixed, it's undeletable. There's nothing that we could do about it. There's nothing that we have to prove. No matter what we've done, no matter what we will do, then even just 10%, if we could let that in all lives shift, things become easier. And just how we feel in our bodies, the lightness, just even feeling healthier, it just starts to shift because we're not, you know, justifying all the time why we are taking up space or is it okay that I'm here? Would your, so what principle fit in here? Oh, I love the, so a principal, anytime you're offended or something goes wrong or you're upset with yourself, if you just replace any other question, comment course of action with this question. So what?
Susie Moore:
41:37 Wow. Like you'll, you'll be really, uh, incredibly efficient. I'm offended. Happy Pasa.
Jen Lehner:
41:44 Yeah. And it was so funny cause you had this like really transformational moment, this really incredible moment where you were offended. Someone said something terrible during your live stream or something and you went to your coach at the time and you were like, Oh my gosh, you're not going to believe what this person said. And then her response to you was, so what?
Susie Moore:
42:03 Yes. And that was a, uh, I mean that was a full body moment where I just like came back to my senses I guess. Cause somebody said, I look like a man. I had a comment by like a man and it just felt so rude. I mean I can go, you know, with egos it was stuff. Oh yeah. And I was like, I was so, I was like, how dare, how dare even YouTube let that coat, you know, Oh man, I was really into it. And then yeah, she just took the wind out of my sails. That was it. So well and think about it. Somebody said to me recently that somebody commented, she posted that she had a great mom because she posted her finger and you know, somebody wrote to us saying, I don't believe you. I didn't believe that you made that much money.
Susie Moore:
42:44 And she said she was shooting for five Oh six days and she wanted to actually send him her financial statement to prove that it was true. And she's like, well, would've been really nice just to think so well about this, this idea that someone thinks that you're lying and by the way somebody thinks you can't have a good month or make you know, whatever amount of money per month, that person does have some compassion, right? It's like we w we do want to defend ourselves and like we know we're in our integrity. If we say what we mean, we speak the truth, but if somebody thinks, gosh, it's not possible to make up no, whatever, 50 K a month, then okay. Like maybe he doesn't feel worthy of receiving. He need, he has some like beliefs and blocks, but he'll work through when he's ready. If he wants, but he doesn't deserve like a lot of hate. He's just kind of in the process of probably still learning
Jen Lehner:
43:30 occasionally, you know, stuff hurts. So we could say, so what we can feel compassion for the other person.
Susie Moore:
43:39 I don't know any other. Yeah. Yeah. And look, I do, I mean, the reason that you like to talk about criticism and in my book you see, I list some of the comments that I've gotten just like unfilled, but well, if anyone has an opinion or has something mean to say to me, and in a lot of cases these people don't know you. Well maybe you know some, sometimes they do the comment. It's just never about you. Right? I mean, if someone has anything to say, someone's called me fat. Say I like a man. Say the IGA should be making mosques. I mean, what, what, what are some of the other chestnuts I've been given? I mean, 20 right? Over the years I just feel so deeply disconnected from somebodies projection. Like it doesn't feel wonderful. It's not like, Oh great, you know, like sling some mud my way.
Susie Moore:
44:26 You know, why not? If you, if you allow yourself to cling a hold onto or even think about it without distracting yourself, balancing out your boats and remembering that it's not about you, like it can, it can get uglier. And then when we think about the deeper, it kind of comes within us, but I just, even my attention to something like that, I'm a goldfish with it. It's like, well, I mean this is all saying the happiness. It's a short memory, right? Yes. So I think if it wants things, anything my way in, because once you can happens with family, you can just, I just remember it. So, uh, so like it's nothing to do with me. I'm not in it. Like it's, yeah, I'm at the house
Jen Lehner:
45:10 and I think that it's, I would imagine that it's, it's, it's something you have to practice and you get better at, right?
Susie Moore:
45:16 Oh yeah. But think about it like, Jen, you'll life changes once you really understand this principle, like your life changes. In fact, I had an argument with my sister recently because she, we had a disagreement or we had a disagreement over something like silly and then she sent me a a couple of texts about, I think she was hut w with with my opinion, an opinion that I shared with her and I actually ignored her. I ignored her message because I was like, she's going to get over this on her own, you know, I'm not going to engage in it. I'm going to use my energy that way. And then the next day she called me, she said, sorry. And I explained to her that probably what she was saying about not feeling supported by me is because she's not supporting herself. I'm like, if you feel like on multiple to decision to go and do like a sat in Korea and I am, I'm neutral about it. It's not my life. I can say, well, it's up to you if you want to do it. And, and I'm like, if you didn't feel supported by me making that move, it's you that needs to support you, not me. And you're just going to be pushing that projection on me. See? And so, and I've realized that we all do this. You know, it's like what we think that somebody who's holding like withholding from us or what we think that somebody is doing to upset us like with doing it to ourselves. Hmm.
Jen Lehner:
46:27 That's so true. No, I love this. This is like free therapy for me. And there's really like, there's so many like little nuggets that I am going to borrow now I'm going to, or I'm going to completely adopt. Please do in my own like conversation that I have with myself throughout the day. And another one is cause I don't want to let you go until we talk about you asking the question. What's essential?
Susie Moore:
46:52 Oh yes. Well it's essential. I mean, well, if right things could be easier and if we didn't have to do all of the things right. Well do you think so perfectly. We'll have everything so planned. But we just thought what could be essential? Like what was essential here. Uh, and then allowing whatever process or decision or task to be easy.
Jen Lehner:
47:15 And can you talk about some of the specific ways that you employ this in your own life? Because I love like you gave some examples, like if you could turn, if you could go and give a talk and make it a Q and a so you don't have to do a lot of prep and slides. That's what you're going to do. I love that. Oh
Susie Moore:
47:30 yeah. Actually I'm doing that while I was meant to do it this, uh, this week in Miami, I'm doing, it'll be pushed back at some point, but I was going to do a talk right at a bookstore. So do a talk about my book and then do an audience Q and a and a friend of mine, he's coming from New York to support me and I, and I also bookstore. Can we do it Q and a saw, can he just interview me? Cause I don't want to prepare a talk frankly. And the values that I'm probably better with a Q and a too. Cause I'm more off the cuff and prepared and will I still deliver, I mean completely the valleys. Anyone who shows up and buys a book, it's the same but so why not? Why, why sofa? Like this new trophy for suffering. Like why would I not just make it easier, easy by looking like what the essentials are and that's showing up, adding value, being on it, right. That's it. Those, these centrals and they can show up in whatever way is going to be easiest money
Jen Lehner:
48:17 showing up, adding value and being honest. That's enough. That's essential. I love it. Um, okay. I want to tell you what I learned. Another thing that I learned that, that I hadn't learned in the 51 years and I was like, wow, I never thought of that. I'm gonna use this. You said that, I don't remember what chapter this is. This was just sort of hanging out there on my notes because I wanted to make sure and tell you how much I appreciate it. Instead of saying to somebody, Hey, you want to hang out soon? Or we ought to get together to say something like, Hey, do you want to try that new vegan restaurant Tuesday at seven?
Susie Moore:
48:52 Yes. Thinking about how an assertive Buster gets results, right? Like, and by the way, we want people to take control in our lives, right? I mean, someone's like, do you know how many texts I get, Jen? Like we need to hang out. We need to catch up. I'm like, specify something. Just make me do the walk. You know? And when you think about it, if he gives specifics, the vegan restaurant at seven, you already thought to picture it and you look at your calendar, am I free on Tuesday? You got things in motion, right? It's these kind of little life hacks I think go a long way.
Jen Lehner:
49:21 You know, we all say that all the time, whether whether we're doing it professionally or with our or their friends or a family, Oh, we should get together. Oh, let's go to dinner sometime. Let's have coffee, blah, blah, blah. But it never happens. And until somebody makes the move. And so I think about like when I read this, I was like, you know, my friends who I value the most, they do this with me. I don't do this with them though. Like I, I have been kind of lazy as, as it turns out it seems like, wow, I need to step it up a little bit and like take the initiative and just, yeah, I just
Susie Moore:
49:59 something tea. Because otherwise have you, she gets cannabis, she get coffee. I mean I, you know, how, how often would you say that? Cause it's polite, right? If it means something to you, taking the initiative not only kind of feels good, you kind of, it get to make some choices too, but other people really appreciate it.
Jen Lehner:
50:14 Yes, I love it. Okay. We didn't even cover you guys for all of this brilliance that just came out of Susie's mouth. This is just not even the half of it and the stories that she shares and it's just truly incredible. It's a fantastic book for anybody. Um, I do think it is the best, best, best graduation gift. I think this really will be one of those like just quintessential like graduation gifts. Like it's, it's uh, it's fantastic because again, if I knew them, what I know now, this is, this is you going back in time and giving this book to someone and saying here, it's all here. Like if you read this, you're going to be, you're going to be in good shape. So the name of the book again is called stop checking your likes, shake off the need for approval and live an incredible life by Susie Moore. You can get it on Amazon right now. There's a wonderful auto audio version that I listened to. Also read it on Kindle and I've got the hardback, so I've got it all and could recommend it wholeheartedly.
Jen Lehner:
51:17 Also, Susie, your website is Susie moore.com is that correct?
Susie Moore:
51:20 susie-moore.com. Yes. Somebody has some photographer somewhere. Susie Moore too. So Susie? Yes. susie-moore.com
Jen Lehner:
51:29 Yeah, a photographer in Ohio stole mine stole mine too. That's funny. But I got it. Got it, got it. Alright, Susie, this was so much fun. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. And you come back anytime.
Susie Moore:
51:43 Okay, let's do it again tomorrow. All right.
