SHOWNOTES
If you have been hearing that launches are dead, webinars are dead, and courses don't sell anymore, this episode is your proof otherwise. My friend Miriam Schulman, luxury market messaging and pricing strategist and author of Artpreneur, just had a launch that crossed $200,000. And she sells to artists.
In this conversation, Miriam walks through her entire launch framework, from her free and VIP bootcamp structure to her three-tier offer ladder. Then we get into how she uses AI, not to crank out more content, but to diagnose why people were not buying, critique her slide decks and emails, and build offers people actually want.
In this episode, we cover:
Why "launches don't work anymore" is a story, not a fact
The exact structure of Miriam's 5-day bootcamp launch
How one offer fix took her from 60 VIPs to 160
The five selling avoidance archetypes she built with AI
How to use AI as a launch coach to critique your slides and emails
The council of elders technique for getting sharper AI feedback
Why AI makes good marketers better and struggling marketers worse
After you listen, DM me on Instagram at @jen_lehner and tell me your biggest takeaway. I would love to hear.
TRANSCRIPT
Entrepreneur Podcast with our girl, Jen.
[00:00:10.220] Hey, hey, I am so excited today. We have, I think, a third time guest, Miriam Schulman. She is a luxury market messaging and pricing strategist for creative entrepreneurs. She's the author of Artpreneur: The Step-by-Step Guide for Making a Sustainable Living from Your Creativity. That's published by HarperCollins. So it's like super legit. Not only that, what is it in its third printing?
[00:00:36.630] Yeah, third or fourth. Yeah. We've sold over 20,000 copies.
[00:00:40.390] Okay. High five, girlfriend.
Read more...
[00:00:41.990] Thank you.
[00:00:43.500] And she's the host of a fantastic podcast called The Inspiration Place. It's top 1% globally. So if you're not a subscriber, make sure and listen. You don't have to be an artist to enjoy it. And she's been featured in Forbes, Entrepreneur, Igniting Creativity and Where Women Create. Miriam helps creative entrepreneurs position their work as premium and reassuringly expensive. I love that phrase. So they attract clients who value taste, certainty, and execution, not discounts. So Miriam, welcome to the show. It's always a pleasure to have you as one of my BFFs and also one of the smartest people that I know.
[00:01:28.770] Right back at you.
[00:01:29.990] I don't feel like—
[00:01:31.690] I just would hang out with you all day long. So this is just fun for me.
[00:01:35.380] Yeah, ditto. All right. But we're not going to just hang out. We're here for a very specific reason, and that is because a couple of things. Number one, you know, I hear, and I think you do too, correct me if I'm wrong, But in the world that we're in, like, I've been doing this like 12 or 13 years. You've been at it for how long? Like the online business thing? Yeah.
[00:01:59.070] I mean, gosh, I think I started my online class like in 2013.
[00:02:05.420] Okay. So a long time. Yeah.
[00:02:06.450] It's actually been a long time, but also dog years. Like, you know, it's like you've been 13.
[00:02:12.810] Totally. Yeah. And so you build up a network whether you want to or not, like just going to conferences and collabs and doing, summits and all of that. And so we meet a lot of people in this space and I have been hearing so many people say launches just don't work anymore.
[00:02:30.290] So not true.
[00:02:31.390] Right? And so—
[00:02:32.460] Mine just keep getting better and better every single time.
[00:02:36.460] Yeah. And in a major way. Right? So let's just go ahead and like, you know, right out of the gate, what you're— can we talk numbers? I didn't even ask you if— Yeah, yeah.
[00:02:44.720] I'm total open book. I mean, I'll have to pull— if you want the exact number, I can pull up my spreadsheet.
[00:02:50.260] We don't need exact.
[00:02:51.600] Okay. So last year, all my launches were hovering around 6 figures. And this year I do that.
[00:02:59.250] Not all your launches combined, correct?
[00:03:01.880] Each one.
[00:03:02.780] Yes.
[00:03:03.750] Each one. And this year I had a launch that went over $200,000.
[00:03:09.450] Amazing.
[00:03:10.660] And I sell to artists. And by the way, like, just so we're clear, because like, you know, we hear this economy and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. My artists are killing it too. Last month we had a contest so that we could track results and everyone who participated, it was a total of $110,000 of art sold in one month. That's June of 2026. So I don't want to hear global economy, global whatever, wars, oil. People are spending their money on things they want.
[00:03:42.500] Yeah. And the other thing, and we'll talk about, because we want to know like what specifically your launch actually looks like, like what's, what, what it involves. But I would just say, generally speaking, you have a very traditional launch framework. And so, because even that, people are like, webinars don't work anymore, courses don't work anymore. And you know, whether you call it a course or a live cohort or whatever. It's a program, right? Programs don't work anymore.
[00:04:12.260] Like it is, but can we just say that my, my program does include feedback and accountability and all the people who join, they do say that is one of the main reasons that they want to join because they're joining, not just for information. Everybody's drowning in information. They're looking for a system that will help them implement. And because we know we're all lazy.
[00:04:40.260] For sure. But I would say that really hasn't changed for you. You've always offered that support. And I would say a lot of people who do online courses, yeah, there were some that were just videos and then there'd be a Facebook group, but right.
[00:04:54.470] And beyond that, so by support we're saying beyond the Facebook group, like, yeah, I have a Facebook group, but I'm hardly even in it. I just do it because I figure people expect it. But yeah, I have accountability pods for my members and they meet with the same 5 people every week at the same time. So they really develop that network that all— like us as online business coaches, we depend on our network just like how I depend on you and our friends. And so I'm giving that to my clients as well.
[00:05:27.600] Let's talk about that for just a second. And I think we've done an episode all about your accountability.
[00:05:32.250] I think we did. Yeah.
[00:05:33.840] So yeah, we'll— I'll figure out what episode number that is and link it down below, because that alone is like worth a listen. Because that is a way of giving really incredible support, or facilitating a space for support, that really requires very little from Miriam and her team. They, they do some backend sort of admin on keeping it organized, but it sort of runs itself, and that doesn't cost Miriam or her team any more significant time. But I think it's important to say that even the best programs, the most successful programs that we all know of, whether it's Stuart Green and Amy Porterfield and Marie Forleo and all those big course creators, they had more than a Facebook group. For a certain amount of time, they would have like a, a call where you had, you know, you, it might be 500 people on the call. But they would do like a lot of—
[00:06:29.010] I've been in that programs and I can tell you the difference. Are we naming names or not? Like, okay. So anyone who's taken the course will recognize it. Let's just say that way. One of those people you might've mentioned who I might've taken a class with, actually I did. So their accountability pods was basically, here's a spreadsheet, you figure it out. Like put your name down, you meet with the people, you figure, and it's really was all up to the people there to figure it out. I know that doesn't work. I mean, we'll definitely link to that episode about accountability pods, but like, we basically are facilitating the whole system so they get the reminder. So it's— we give them the Zoom links, we give them all the structure. We're not letting them just figure it out with your buddies, right?
[00:07:14.810] I agree. And I would just add though that the model of having— I mean, forget accountability pods, but just, okay, a call that you could show up live for. Everybody always offered that, right? Like, that's not new to say you're gonna get true calls a month. And that's important because what I'm saying is that not much has changed, you know? So everybody's like, oh, everything has changed. Not a lot has changed, but it's easy to just throw up your hands and say everything has changed and nothing from the old way works anymore. But it does still work.
[00:07:56.650] We— Does still work.
[00:07:57.570] —offer more, you know, more support, a little more community because people are craving more human touch as we get more on, you know, automated and also just getting inundated with so much information. Information is cheap, you know. Yeah. ChatGPT can tell me everything that is in your book.
[00:08:15.520] But what people are craving that they don't have is also wisdom.
[00:08:20.730] Yes, I love that. Wisdom is right. And AI doesn't have wisdom.
[00:08:25.400] No, it doesn't. Because you basically say, I have this idea, and they're great. That's a great idea. And then you can go back to it and say, oh, that's the stupidest idea. Oh, you're right. I'm so glad you pointed that out.
[00:08:37.910] Exactly.
[00:08:39.440] So it doesn't have an opinion.
[00:08:41.940] So that's the second part of what we're gonna talk about. So I wanna, I wanna go through your launch. I wanna talk about the structure of your launch. And then I wanna talk about AI and, you know, you are a, an AI user and what a lot of people don't know and what we didn't mention in your bio is like Miriam went to MIT and studied AI and she also worked on Wall Street as like a quant, right? Yeah. Got that. Yeah, and she's like this brilliant artist, and now she's like this crazy good entrepreneur. You're making me embarrassed. So she knows her way around some AI. And so you are— Look at the pods.
[00:09:19.300] Like, we have— we do have to tell our listeners that you don't have to go to MIT to use AI now.
[00:09:25.390] No, no, no, thank you for that. Thank you. Right. But you really use it so well, so we're going to talk about that as well. So how it played into your launches. So let's back up and we wanna zoom out and, and for my listeners who don't really launch anything, let's say you are a psychologist or you are a coach or a consultant and you don't really actually do these big launches. It's okay because I promise you by the end of this, you're gonna have so many smart takeaways. This is for everybody. So listen up. Okay. So Miriam, walk us through the framework of your launch. Tell us about the program and then what are the pieces of your launch?
[00:10:08.890] Okay, so my program follows very closely to the book. I won't— I mean, obviously it has, like we said, more support, more strategy, more feedback, but it has the 5 main areas. And what's really important with the launch is that what you teach for free has to relate to what you're selling. So what I have in my launch is the first day, and I'm, I do it as a bootcamp. I have found that the people sometimes need more time to warm up to. We still, though, like you said, webinars are not dead. We have an evergreen webinar. People do buy a $3,000 program from my webinar. Without me being live. But our boot camp, we have both a free version of the boot camp, so general admission, anyone can come. You get 4 days with me to do the teaching and coaching. But we also have a paid version, and the paid version is VIP. So in years past, I'm going to introduce how AI helped me this launch. In years past Basically the only difference between the regular and the VIP were, was those live coaching calls with me. That's not good enough anymore.
[00:11:28.840] So in my January launch, we started our ads and my ads manager, she's like, Miriam, nobody's buying the upsell. What's going on? So I could say nobody's buying. I could say the economy. I could say tariffs. I could have said any of those stories to myself. Instead I said, okay, The offer isn't good enough. Hmm. And so what did I do is I decided to create some assets that they got along with being in the VIP. So not just the one-on-one sessions with me, but what else could I give them? Could I give them a PDF? Could I give them scripts? So what I came up with for this is the Luxury Collector Attraction Kit. So that included a bunch of assets for them. So whether they attended my VIP sessions or not, when they got to that VIP sales page, they saw value. Because when you are trying to do a big launch and you're driving cold traffic to it, getting on a, an extra call with me may not feel valuable if you have no idea who Miriam Schulman is. So I created some assets to make it more valuable whether they attended the extra thing or not.
[00:12:39.680] So that made a huge difference. So we went from having normally 60 VIPs to— we in January, I think we had 100, and this most recent June one, we had 160.
[00:12:51.780] And how much were you charging for the VIP experience?
[00:12:54.730] $47. And what we did in January, which we changed, is we, we were stepping it up. Like they only got $47 if they bought immediately. We changed it this most recent launch to it was $47 no matter whether they bought it immediately, second day, third day, whatever. And that increased our number of VIPs dramatically, like keeping it the same price.
[00:13:17.380] So quick question, how many times are you launching now per year?
[00:13:21.820] 3. But the first AI thing was I used AI to create those assets for the luxury attraction.
[00:13:29.120] All the AI, I just want to know because I have a lot of AI questions. Okay, I want to keep it— all right, so you have the boot camp and they can show up and not pay anything, or they can get the VIP experience for $47.
[00:13:41.880] And everything is live. Every day I'm going live, whether you paid or not. And then I'm also going live again with the VIPs. Okay.
[00:13:53.090] And then at the end of the bootcamp, you have a webinar. Okay.
[00:14:00.100] So I do things a little differently than you do. So I present the 5 most common problems on day 1. I say, come back tomorrow cuz we're gonna talk how to fix these 5 problems. That's day 2. Day 3, the 5 secrets of every successful artist. And of course every secret is like what's in the course. So everything that we do in bootcamp has to be aligned with what I'm actually selling. So it's not like learn a bunch of stuff and now here's a course you can buy. And on day 3, after I introduced the 5 Secrets, that's when I actually sell the Artist Incubator.
[00:14:38.380] So that last call is your sales webinar.
[00:14:41.870] It's not the last call. On Thursday, we do a mind—
[00:14:45.460] you open the cart.
[00:14:46.590] I open the cart, right? So that's the first time I sell. And one thing I do, which I love, is day 1 and day 2, the VIPs meet me. After the main call, I say, hey, you know, if you want help with what we just did today, it's not too late to join VIP. VIPs, we're going to bring what we, you know, the exercises we just did to our call. So that creates like people wanting to be on that. So we have a lot of people upgrading on that first day and even on the second day. But however, on day 3, because I'm opening the cart, I actually meet with the VIPs before that call. And what I say to them is, hey, you're VIP. If you join my program today, because I'm going to open the program, you're going to get something special. Well, that's genius.
[00:15:34.720] So you're like, hey, look, this is before call number 5. You're like, look, so glad you're here.
[00:15:39.580] And it's also, we treat that VIP as like a tailgate party because it's like, it's, we're pre-gaming the main event.
[00:15:47.230] That's good language to use. Love that. Okay. Okay. Keep going. This is so good. Okay.
[00:15:52.610] So what we do on day 4 is a mindset coach. Now it's normally with the mindset coach that I have inside my program. She gives them mindset coaching twice a month. And so they just get to experience what mindset coaching is like. And we also invite everybody who's already in the program to that call. So that way they're kind of the cheerleaders too. It's like having shillers in the audience, you know, except I'm not paying them to say nice things. They just do. So they get to incentivize them in any way to the—
[00:16:25.370] your existing students?
[00:16:26.520] No, because they just want to join. The people who like that call, who like the mindset call, they come because they like it. So those are the people you want there.
[00:16:34.950] So it's already a mindset call that you're offering. You're, you're just combining. That's right. Double duty.
[00:16:40.940] Okay, that's right. And then At the end of that, I basically say, hey, do you want this twice a month? That's what we have inside the Artist Incubator. Would you like to hear about it? So the people who are not in the Artist Incubator, some stay, some don't, obviously. And people who are already in it, they, they leave. Although sometimes they stay. I'm like, I don't know why they like to hear me sell. I don't know. So that's day 4. Day 5, we do the artist Success Panel. So for that one, I invite 4 or 5 of my star students. That one is incentivized because I don't pay them to do it, but I say, I'm gonna give you an extra mastermind, just the 4 of you or whoever's there afterwards. So they come and I ask them about what life was like before the program, what their biggest successes are. What their advice is for people who want to join. So that goes on for about an hour. And then I say, hey, you want success like this? That's what I offer inside the Artist Incubator. And then I go through the sales pitch again.
[00:17:46.580] So I'm actually doing the same exact sales pitch those 3 days, every day in a row. And then Monday afterwards, I do the masterclass, which is very similar to what I've already done inside the bootcamp, but we kind of call it a recap. So it is my masterclass, the same one I have on the evergreen, and it's basically the same thing as day 1, day 2, plus a sales pitch.
[00:18:12.030] And then what about when do you close the cart?
[00:18:15.760] So cart normally closes then that Wednesday. So sometimes it's Thursday, but like we closes that Wednesday. So the cart is basically open a full week from the Wednesday that we open it, and then we close it the following Wednesday.
[00:18:31.790] Okay, so just to recap, and so everyone understands, you're launching 3 times a year. The last several launches have done 6 figures. Your very last launch did over $200,000. So we're looking at a million dollar year within a year if you continue to grow and maybe add one more launch, or not? No, I'm not adding another launch, but yes, this is incredible. And You continue to grow. And so it's so inspiring to me, and I love to share your story with others because I've always sort of held that if I see someone else doing it, whatever that thing is, and unless they're Michael Jordan and just born with innate jumping skills or something like that, okay, I'm not gonna be able to attain that. I'm just of the mindset, if another human is doing it, then I can do it too. All right, let's get to the AI stuff because we have a lot of listeners that are all about AI. Most people use AI to just crank out more content, but you used it differently. You've said that AI helped you find a sharper diagnosis of why artists weren't selling. What does that mean and how did that conversation with AI actually go?
[00:19:46.850] So we survey our audience, which I'm sure, Jen, you tell your, your audience to do, to always be surveying your customers. And I built that into the launch as well. So I have lots of launch survey data. So they take a survey, what are their biggest struggles? I threw past—
[00:20:05.510] When are they taking this survey?
[00:20:07.460] So for the, for the VIPs, one of the bonuses is that some of them, not all of them, will get a portfolio review. And what I tell them is that you have to apply to get picked for a portfolio review. Now I'm doing that for a lot of reasons. That's one.
[00:20:27.220] That's so smart.
[00:20:27.800] Wait, okay, let's say we have to slow down because there's so many, like, so many things layered in this.
[00:20:32.150] I don't want any of this to get missed because this is just, this is really so cool. Okay, so if they want to qualify for a one-on-one with you—
[00:20:42.030] it's not a one-on-one, they get a portfolio review during that VIP session. During that, during that hour call. I don't have time to do everybody because like I said, we had 160 people last time, but maybe I'll do 2 or 3 portfolio reviews. So they have to put in their name, their blah, blah, blah, their website. And then we ask them questions like, how large is your email list? What's your income? What's your biggest struggle? And I intentionally now pick people for those portfolio reviews who are not just starting out because to get somebody on there who's never sold artwork before, it's not as instructive for everybody else. And it can be a very difficult experience for me to coach somebody who might not be coachable. You know, I'm doing it live and somebody who does it right. But here's the thing that's so great about it is now I can follow up with everybody with a personal Loom. Like I can identify who's my hottest prospects here. Who do I really want to get into my high-end program? So I'm not sending looms to 160 people, but I can say, oh, these artists would really benefit from my program.
[00:21:52.170] So I can follow up with those. Also, this is also a good time to mention that you have a higher level program, a much higher level program. That is— how much is your next offer?
[00:22:02.760] Okay, so I just introduced in 2026 a tier in between. So I actually have 3 tiers now. Okay. And the first tier had been $2,000 and it was for this most recent launch. It just got raised to $3,000. I have sold that by evergreen, several of them already. So I'm not concerned about the price going up. I also have— so again, one second.
[00:22:25.380] So again, we don't have every— and not everybody who's listening is coming from the online course space. And I just want to say evergreen just means that there's a funnel with elements of this on that are recorded and people can watch the masterclass and they can see the sales page and, and then they can purchase without being in launch. So it just sort of, it's out there in the ether. It's on her webpage. It's on a sales page and it just sells. So the fact that a $3,000 product is being sold without a sales call, without a sales call, without a sales pitch, without, without Miriam You know, with Miriam is, you know, she's out in her garden picking cucumbers and $3,000 comes through and she goes cha-ching like that. So that's evergreen. Okay, go ahead, Miriam.
[00:23:11.310] Okay, so in January, I decided that I wanted to introduce, and then we have a higher level. So the higher level, so we have tier 1, tier 2 I'll talk about in a moment, and we have tier 3 is my inner circle. So the inner circle, that is where they get one-on-one calls with me. I have two cohorts that are of only 7 to 10 artists each, and it's $12,000 for whatever period of time. I don't wanna like be married to these numbers because they're changing. I don't want somebody to say, like the way you said on the podcast, on Jen's podcast, it's this and now it's that. Okay. So I wanted to introduce another level because first of all, I felt there were a lot of artists who weren't ready to invest. 10 grand and up on a coaching program with me, cuz maybe they've never invested that way in themselves before, or they didn't feel they were advanced enough in their art career, or maybe they don't have a problem investing, but they didn't wanna spend the time. So I created this second tier, which isn't, to be fair, it really isn't a coaching tier.
[00:24:14.730] It's really a consulting tier. I only meet with them once for an hour. I have them fill out a very detailed intake form. And then after that one-on-one call, I create messaging for them. I create assets for them, like, here are 100 galleries, art consultants, and interior designers you should contact. Obviously, I'm using Claude to research that, but it's very specific to them. I take their pricing, I research their market, where they're at. And I have some conversations back and forth with whatever AI tool I feel like using that day. Again, there's a lot of oversight in that because we have all had days when we're like, you stupid robot, I can't believe you just told me this, you know?
[00:25:04.430] So like, and we're gonna talk about the ways that AI maybe have, has gone wrong for you, but back to the idea of you getting them to fill out this form.
[00:25:17.920] Surveys. Yes. Let's go back to surveys.
[00:25:20.870] But I think this is— that also gives you an opportunity because there's some people and I don't know if you allow this, but there are people who fill out those surveys that a bell goes off for you when you're looking, you're like, oh no, no, no, they can go straight to the top.
[00:25:36.270] Yeah, that's right. So I can tell. And also because I'm picking them for portfolio reviews, I'm already building rapport with them during that VIP call. I'm already seeing who would be a good client for me, because it's not just them evaluating me. I also am looking to see who I want to work with. So yeah, there are people that I definitely follow up with, whether sometimes I do it before they join the program, and sometimes I do it when they join my first level. I say, hey, you, you really would be great for the Inner Circle.
[00:26:06.820] Like a coach that you and I both shared, one of the things that he would say, and I, it was so counterintuitive, but he's like, at the end of the launch, go back to the people who didn't buy. And instead of offering a downsell, a cheaper version, give them an upsell, like go straight to the hype. Maybe that's what they wanted all along. Yeah.
[00:26:27.330] I don't do that as much as I should, but there are people like that who come to me afterwards and says, I didn't want this. I thought it was too beginner. But I think I lost a thread here because we were talking about the 3 levels. The one thing that I introduced this time was the $5,000 consulting package. So that's in between.
[00:26:45.450] So $3,000 is the course. Yeah. And $5,000 consulting and then $12,000 or whatever it is.
[00:26:52.010] $12,000, right. Whatever. Something, uh, something else. So this particular launch, we had a lot of people buy the $5,000 package without a sales call when I opened the cart. And that's why I said, oh, I could really raise my prices. And also because Somebody was telling me, well, I can't join your course cuz I, I'm in this other thing. And I had, I heard that from a few people and usually these classes aren't so expensive that you can't buy two of them. So I looked into it, I says, oh, my competitors are charging more than me. Time to raise my prices. So it's not just me who's doing well. There's a lot of people who are charging a lot of money for these coaching programs and they're doing well. I think what people need to hear though, cuz this is what I'm always telling myself, if things aren't working, it's not the economy. It's usually something under your control that you can change. So back to why I even brought up the surveys in the first place, cuz you said the first thing I do is making a stronger diagnosis. Yeah. Is I have literally, I've been doing this bootcamp launch since 2023, 3 times a year.
[00:28:02.500] So I have lots of survey data and really being able to understand what they're struggling with and diagnosing that. So that has been really helpful. And of course, that's what AI does the best is analyzing data. This is true.
[00:28:20.710] You shared something else with me that I just, again, like your creativity is so crazy good. But you landed on this idea of selling avoidance and you created these 5 archetypes. The art hoarder. The art hoarder Barbie. Okay. The polite creative. The polite creative Barbie.
[00:28:40.870] I, I don't say Barbie cuz it's like copyright protected. Okay. So I also decided to make different archetypes with Barbie and Ken dolls, except not calling them Barbie and Ken. So to map them with their most common avoidance type, like the garage sale artist. Now for those, I know most of your audience are not artists, but basically I know people in business and in the online space do this too, where they, they try to be all things to everyone and they don't narrow down what they're doing. So what a garage sale artist is, is somebody who just in case, and I don't wanna narrow myself down. So the way it shows up in the art world is the artist is doing ceramics and knitting and painting. The way it might show up in a different business is the person is creating oracle cards and I don't know, you know, different industries where they like, they won't narrow down their niche. Yeah. You should get the example.
[00:29:46.210] Yeah, I am the example, Miriam. No, it's always been, it's always been so hard for me. You know what I mean? Like, like when I was just doing digital marketing, I just refused to say I was going to do digital marketing for architects, you know, or for whatever, but I would have been so much more successful sooner. I mean, I would have been more successful and sooner, I think, if I would have done that. It's just something that I didn't. But yeah, point taken. Like, we get it. Like the whole garage sale. Like if you're for everyone, you're really for no one kind of.
[00:30:19.040] Yeah. And the art hoarder Barbie is something people can recognize very quickly too. So that is people who are saving it because they're not ready yet, or they're saving it for something bigger. So the way it shows up in my world is, no, I'm saving this for an art show, or I can't release my website because it's not ready yet. Well, that last one, that applies to a lot of business people. It's kind of like you're, you're hoarding onto things, but it's really all these different archetypes, whether it's garage sale or art hoarder or polite creative. They don't wanna ask for the sale. They don't wanna make it weird. These are all driven from underlying scarcity mindset. Okay.
[00:31:03.990] So what is so brilliant here is where most people are using AI for content, and obviously this is content to some degree, but you've gone deep into psychology here now, right? Like, so this is a psychological move, which I guess bleeds into your whole sales strategy because it's not like, do this, then do this, and then do that. You're saying, do you recognize yourself in these archetypes? You know? And so that's a, that hits like a deep emotional chord. So I would imagine that to come up with the archetypes, you must have had like hours of conversation with your boyfriend Claude or—
[00:31:42.520] Yeah, this one, I— it was with PAL. That's what I call ChatGPT, like the robot that doesn't always behave. Right. But ChatGPT did generate the Barbie doll images. And then we also decided to create human versions of each Barbie doll. So that was something I used AI to do. You mean like a human image?
[00:32:03.740] Like, not like you went out and got an actor. Oh, right.
[00:32:07.350] Yeah. Human, a human image. So we have a Barbie doll that, you know, looks very ethnic. She has very boho flowy dress. So she's like a legit Barbie doll in the pink box. But then we also have the human version of it. And so I used that one throughout. My mindset webinar to illustrate what it is that this person is thinking and feeling so that my audience could recognize themselves. So I went really heavy on AI to create all of those images from my slide deck.
[00:32:44.290] So most people, when they're creating a slide deck with AI, it's pretty cut and dried, but you fed your slide decks into AI and asked it to critique the conversion pacing. Yeah. The emotion. Where would people like just check out emotionally?
[00:32:59.210] So yeah, that was number 2. I'd be, and also the other thing I do, and I, I don't know if you teach this, Jen, but I actually make AI write its own prompts.
[00:33:10.100] Yeah, I do that. I teach that and we call it meta prompting. I mean, I didn't invent that term, but it's, it's the best way to get the best result. You just say, this is what I wanna do. How do I prompt you? To get this result and then writes a prompt that includes things that you never would have thought of.
[00:33:27.190] But so I used it to basically critique my slide deck. So we critiqued it two different ways, once just for the language that was on there and then also for the images. So that was two different prompts. And what I got out of it was so brilliant and it's like gave me, I, you know, said, get rid of the cat. Seriously, get rid of the cat here. Like, I'm a cat lady, so I love cats, but they're like, no, yeah, you think it's cute, but you can do so much better here. So that was number 2, is having it really be my launch coach in terms of all my webinars and critiquing my webinars and making them punchier and increase conversions.
[00:34:16.920] Yeah, it's such a good idea. And thanks for the reminder on how, you know, on meta-prompting, 'cause honestly, like, it's such a simple thing. And sometimes I still have to remind myself to do it. Like, I'll run over to AI and I'll just start typing in the thing and I'm like, wait, wait, wait, no, let me just quickly. And for some, this is not scientific in any way, but I like to open up another LLM than what I'm using. So I'm having a conversation in Claude, let's say, and I wanna prompt it to do something, instead of asking it for the prompt, I like to go to another— I agree.
[00:34:54.540] Because if you don't, what happens, 'cause I've done it both ways, is it kind of becomes infected with the biases you've already been— so you kind of end up getting a bad prompt. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:10.130] It, I feel like it's influenced. Yeah.
[00:35:13.340] It'll tell it specifically what to include. And it was like, no, no, no, no.
[00:35:17.590] It's like if you tell your mom or your best friend about your mean boyfriend, but then you make up with your boyfriend and then, you know, and you want them to like him again. Not that this ever happened to me. And then, yeah, but they're not, they're influenced. They're just, they can't erase what they, what they already know. And so they don't like him anymore. And then you break up with him. Okay, so I wanted to ask you about that pitch. You said that your pitch in our private conversation, that your pitch on day 4 really didn't feel like a pitch. It felt like the obvious next step. How did you use AI to build that bridge between the training and the offer?
[00:36:01.200] So a lot of that, what we've been talking about so far, I normally have my mindset coach on day 4, and this year she couldn't make it. So I create this. That's why I created, here's the 5 archetypes, 'cause I didn't wanna go there and do mindset coaching 'cause I'm not the one who does it in the program. I, let me give them an understanding of where their mindset is holding them back by showing them these archetypes. So for that particular one, I don't think the bridge was as powerful. But where I was using it more powerfully, so as I mentioned previously, I'm using the same pitch on day 3, day 4, day 5, and also on Monday. So my, I have a, a, a slide deck that's just for the pitch that we use every time. It's the same one. I don't duplicate it. It's just, that's, that's what comes up. So that one I critiqued heavily in AI for the text and the flow to make sure that I wasn't describing features and benefits, I was describing results. So often we're always being told, describe the benefits, but that's not even really what it's about.
[00:37:14.950] So if you think about Nike sneakers, the feature is it's made of whatever, leather, right? And so we all know, don't describe the features, describe the benefits. But if you notice, Nike doesn't describe the benefits either. The benefits would be this sneaker helps you run faster, but that's not what they say. What they say is just do it. So what they're actually selling is motivation. So not features, not benefits, but really what the result they want. So AI helped me see where in my slide deck, because it's, it's really hard to see it when you're inside the bottle for like, I can describe here's, here's artist, you're doing this wrong. Or here's how Nike's doing it right. But when it's yourself, you don't always see it. So we analyzed my slide deck to see where was I describing features or benefits instead of results when it came to pitching.
[00:38:09.040] And so on that note, you had talked about the idea that recognition isn't resolution in your follow-up emails. How did that change what you sent versus the standard cart closes tonight sequence? Like you didn't have all that hypey urgency to close.
[00:38:27.890] No, a lot. In fact, if anything, I removed a lot of that from my last emails. I had so much of that with, you know, red type with yellow marker through it.
[00:38:39.700] Count on timers.
[00:38:41.360] I still use count on timers. Of course I do, but it became less about that and I did change some of the emails that had gotten stale. Really understanding that the reason people are signing up for me is not for the information. So that's why I said the benefits and features don't matter. It's recognizing they don't need information, they need implementation. So emphasizing how the course helps them get to the finish line. It's not what you know, it's what you do. Just like weight loss. You know, if you could read a book, we'd have a world full of skinny people.
[00:39:20.080] Did AI help you to get rid of the yellow and the red and the—
[00:39:24.880] Yeah. So just like I had it critique my slide deck, I had it critique my emails. And then I also, I don't know if you do this, but I like to have a council of elders when I do AI. So have Russell Brunson critique this. Explain that for the audience.
[00:39:44.300] Okay. So advisory board. Or your—
[00:39:47.030] yeah, yeah. So AI has swallowed the entire internet, and if you just ask it to give me a specific result, it's going to give an average of everything that's out there. Now, average is not good enough, so you want to tap into specific things. So sometimes I'll say, okay, have Brené Brown, Russell Brunson, and Leila Hormozi, and I don't know, who's that? The one who used to be a cheerleader that's doing really well. Kelly. Kelly Roach, right? You know, have them critique this. So now it puts on a different hat and then you as a human can decide, I like this, but I don't like that. So that's why when you said earlier, Jen, you must have had lots of conversations. Absolutely. It's never just you dump something in and you get something out and like, this is it. So it's definitely an iterative process.
[00:40:43.150] Is there anywhere in the launch that you could think of? And if nothing comes to mind, that's fine because I don't want to put you on the spot. But is there anything that comes to mind of a fail, like an AI fail, or just maybe anything, something generally that you're noticing that you're like, I really don't like that?
[00:40:59.590] Honestly, I don't like how long things take, and sometimes I feel Like I said, that I'm yelling at it, oh, this is so stupid. And then I'm telling it what to do and why didn't I just do it myself? So I think it's the AI fail is sometimes it's so good, but it's not always so good. It's like that little girl, like when she's good, she's good. And when she's bad, she's horrid. And you still have to know the difference between good copy and bad copy. So there was a study from Harvard Business Review that said if you were already good at marketing, AI will make you 30% better. But if you're not good at it, it'll make you worse. So I think that's also the biggest problem with AI is sometimes we're trusting it to help us do things and we think it's making us better and it may not be.
[00:41:53.050] I love that. I love that. And that is so true. When you first said that it takes so long, I just crack up because I hear it sometimes. I'll hear this and I'll be like, are you really actually kidding me?
[00:42:03.250] Like, but if you're sitting at the desk waiting, I feel like I'm a monkey grinder. But then, like, I don't mind if it takes a long time and when I get back, it's brilliant. But the problem is it's like taking a long time and then I'm going to the kitchen for a snack.
[00:42:21.220] But let's define long time. Do you know what I mean?
[00:42:23.400] That's all I'm saying. No, it's like enough that I'm going to the kitchen for a snack. That's how long, like.
[00:42:28.040] But it's also work that would have taken 2 days. Like, like, you know what I mean?
[00:42:32.530] So, but it's also, you have to, the more you use it, the better you'll get at preventing it from taking too long. Like my problem with Claude is it likes to make everything so pretty. And now I've learned that, please don't give me a color-coded spreadsheet. Don't waste your time on that.
[00:42:47.850] I just want a list of things. Yes. So there's a couple of takeaways, I think, like one of the big ones is that Launches still work. Programs still work. And the old-fashioned—
[00:43:01.250] I would say, I would make it even broader. Yeah. Selling still works. People are still buying things. That's why, that's why I said the artists in my program, we're not talking about world-famous Gauguin artists. We're talking about people who maybe learned to paint in COVID. Some of them, they made $110,000 in art sales in one month. People are buying art in this economy. People are buying classes. People are buying coaching. I'm buying things. I mean, people are still shopping. So not to accept the fact, and this is something actually, okay, you're gonna groan when I say this. This is something I put in about in my last chapter of the book, Artpreneur, not to blame your boots, like keep marching forward. And when things aren't working, it's not your boots' fault. It's because you're either marching in place. Or you sat down on a rock to like massage your feet. Keep moving forward. Keep putting one foot in front of the other. And if things aren't working, go in a different direction.
[00:44:01.230] I love that so much. We're gonna end it there. Thank you, Miriam. This was as always, like super informative and educational to me. So it's like I got private coaching really. So thank you for my private one-on-one coaching session. And listeners, if you want to follow Miriam, and I highly recommend that you do, all of her links will be in the show notes, but her podcast is The Inspiration Place, and anywhere you get your podcast, you will find it. And she's also fun to follow on Instagram. And she is Shulman Art, and that's S-C-H-U-L-M-A-N-A-R-T.
[00:44:40.970] That was my original eBay handle. I love it. I didn't want people to know I was a woman.
[00:44:48.150] Oh my God. Are we that old? I am that old.
[00:44:51.550] And then I decided to use Schulman Art everywhere. I was just like, that's— it works.
[00:44:55.830] I think it's perfect. Says who you are and what you do. And I like literal. All right. Well, thank you so much, Miriam. And I'm sure we'll see you again here in the near future. Or I hope so, because you're welcome anytime.
