In a recent episode of my podcast, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Joe Fier, a wizard in digital marketing and the brains behind the popular Hustle and Flow Chart Podcast. If you've ever wondered how to make your mark in the podcast world, either by starting your own show or by appearing as a guest on others, Joe's insights are like striking gold. He walked us through some game-changing strategies and shared his personal journey, blending professional insights with life lessons. Here's what we covered:
Dream 100 Strategy: How to Land Top Guests and Collaborate with the Best
Joe introduced us to the Dream 100 strategy, a brilliant approach to not just dreaming about having top-tier guests on your podcast but actually making it happen. And guess what? This strategy isn't just for podcast hosts. Even if you don't have your own show, Joe shared how you can use this to secure dream collaborations that boost your brand's visibility and authority.
Content Repurposing: Spread Your Message Far and Wide
We also dived into how to get the most out of your content. Joe is a master at taking a single piece of content and turning it into multiple pieces across different platforms. This means more eyes on your work without doubling your workload.
The AI Revolution: Creating Cutting-edge Content
Then, there's AI. Joe shared how tools like Delphi AI are changing the game in content creation and audience engagement. It's about leveraging technology to make content that stands out and truly engages your audience, and Joe is leading the charge in exploring these new frontiers.
Building Partnerships and Managing Sponsorships
Joe also touched on the art of crafting meaningful partnerships and managing sponsorships in a way that benefits your brand beyond just the financial aspect. It's about creating relationships that are mutually beneficial and aligned with your brand values.
AI's Role in the Future of Marketing
We ventured into the impact of AI on marketing and content creation, where Joe sees a world of opportunities. He's not just talking about what's happening now but also where things are headed, offering a glimpse into the future of digital marketing.
Balancing Work and Life: Joe's Personal Journey
Amid all the professional advice, Joe got personal, sharing his journey of balancing ambitious professional goals with his personal life, including becoming a father and focusing on personal growth. It's a reminder that at the end of the day, finding balance is key.
Dive Deep into Digital Success with Joe Fier
This episode isn't just about tips and tricks for podcasting; it's a deep dive into the strategies essential for success in today's digital age, all shared by someone who's walked the path and seen significant success.
Joe's journey from curious marketer to podcasting powerhouse and digital marketing leader offers invaluable lessons for anyone looking to make their mark online. Whether you're launching a podcast, aiming to be a sought-after guest, or exploring the latest in AI, Joe's insights can help you navigate the digital landscape more effectively.
RESOURCES
https://hustleandflowchart.com/dream100
https://hustleandflowchart.com/castmagic
https://hustleandflowchart.com/checklist
https://hustleandflowchart.com/media
https://hustleandflowchart.com/delphi
https://hustleandflowchart.com/bot
Connect with Joe at:
Website - Hustle and Flow Chart
Instagram - @joefier
Podcast - Hustle and Flow Chart
Don’t miss this episode and let me know your thoughts after you listen. I always love hearing from you. If you have any questions about this episode, comment below or DM me on Instagram @jen_lehner
[00:00:02.530] - Gary Vee Hey, guys. It's Gary Vaynerchuk. And you're listening to the Front Row Entrepreneur Podcast with our girl, Jen.
[00:00:10.930] - Jen Lehner Our guest today is a successful content marketer, podcast host, and entrepreneur who provides advice on working smarter and living better. He has interviewed top experts. He's worked with clients in various industries and achieved notable success in generating revenue and raising investments. He values family. He's got a brand new one that's almost two months old. He believes in working smart and has created online platforms that generated millions. Welcome to the show, Joe Fier.
[00:00:43.670] - Joe Fier Hey, Jen. Thanks for having me here. It's great to reconnect. You're on my show a couple of months back, and it's fun to do it here.
Read more...
[00:00:51.760] - Jen Lehner Yeah. That was a thrill for me because I love your show. Joe's show is called the Hustle and Flow Chart podcast. You have had everybody who is anybody on that show. So many big names. How do you get those big names?
[00:01:07.220] - Joe Fier That's a good question. It's one of them. Yeah, it's probably the most obvious. Like, Oh, how the heck can I get that person? But honestly, it comes into a little bit of confidence and practice of just doing the thing. But really, I do have a strategy I can share, which is probably one that you might be wanting to learn.
[00:01:26.410] - Jen Lehner Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:01:27.490] - Joe Fier At the same time, I think there's a barrier that we all have in our brains that we're like, We're not ready to ask this person, or my website's not good enough, or whatever it is that might be holding us back mentally. Finally, there was like something flipped one day. It's like, I'm just going to start asking, and I'm going to ask my friends. I'm going to figure out who's connected to who and walk down that whole chain. It's how my brain works anyway. It's like I start mapping out all the names. I'm like, Who knows who? How do I do? Connect the dots? It's It's that. There's a strategy, too.
[00:02:02.410] - Jen Lehner Okay, well, can we know the strategy or do we want to save that for another day?
[00:02:06.870] - Joe Fier No, let's go into it. I just didn't want to... Yeah, we're coming out hot. There's this strategy, the dream 100 is a concept from Chet Holmes that some people may or may not know. I don't need to go into his version of it. I tweaked this. I call this the Dream 100 strategy. It's getting intentional about who are the people that you want on your podcast. Even if you take a step back out of a podcast, if you don't have one, it's okay. Maybe it's a show or a podcast you want a guest on. Then leverage someone else's virtual stage. That's how I see podcasts and even YouTube collaborations, Instagram. You can do it on any platform. Everyone has their own little brand now these days. If you don't, then... I mean, even kids, it's scary, almost. But it's It's the world we live in. It's like, Okay, let's identify the people and the brands who we want to connect with for whatever reason. Having that reason in mind is probably a good idea, of course. But then this idea is to list these people very deliberately. I'm jumping into it. It's a spreadsheet, Google Sheet.
[00:03:20.010] - Joe Fier I keep it simple, and there's a reason for Google Sheets, specifically, is what you do is you can list all these names. Let's call it 100 people. If you want to with 50, that's okay. No one's watching you. But literally, these names are probably in our heads. Who are the people that I would just love to connect with? They can become referral partners, maybe for something that I have. Maybe they have an audience that I really want to get in front of or borrow authority or credibility from this person and bring them onto your stage or on theirs. But either way, the idea is- So right now this target list of 100 can be, you want to go on their show, you want them on your show.
[00:03:59.440] - Jen Lehner It doesn't It doesn't matter. Right now, it's just who do you want to connect with.
[00:04:02.830] - Joe Fier Correct. Yeah. And if you start there, then you can go a little bit more in-depth. But put those names on a list. So the 100 people on a Google Sheet. And if you want to See my template, you can even swipe and literally copy it if you wish. It's at hustleandflowchart.com/dream100.
[00:04:23.860] - Jen Lehner Kept it simple. Thank you for that. We'll definitely put that in the show notes too.
[00:04:27.170] - Joe Fier No opt-in or anything. It literally just goes to a Google Sheet. Awesome. I'd recommend following that format. There's a little instruction box on top that basically prompts people because you'll see where this is going. It's like, Hey, who do I want to connect with? It's like you're titling this box, and then there's a list of names right below. Because the idea is that you're going to have this list and you want to start sharing it out to the world. This isn't an internal document. You have these 100 names, and let's put some moonshots on You can put on people that you are connected with, or maybe you're one or two degrees separated. That's what is going to comprise of that 100 names of brands or people on that list. The sheet now becomes this living document because it's always changing, of course. You can link this into your email signature. This is where if you have a Google Sheet and a Google-based email, it puts a little preview on the bottom of this email that looks like an attachment. This is really where the mind starts going is that's automatic. Just because you're linking to another Google property, from Google to Google, a lot of people are using Google emails.
[00:05:43.080] - Joe Fier If you're not, don't feel like this is not for you. I would still do it. It's just not going to have the little preview thing. But in your email signature, what I write and what is... You could just swipe this too, is like, Hey, here's my dream 100 of people I'd love to get to know or connect with. Do you know anyone? It's one of those things. You're just lobby it out there. The idea is now every single email you send, the first email, I think, in a thread, we'll put that little preview. It looks like an attachment, but it's not. That gets people clicking. It gets people thinking like, All right, what did Jen just put here? What is this list? Dream100? Who does she want to connect with? And then you're going to start to see people will just naturally refer people to you. It's this inbound strategy without you really doing the asking. And if they're not on the list, they're probably going to connect it to people who they're like, Oh, well, you should know this other person. They're not on your list, but I'm going to connect you anyway, or do you want to get connected?
[00:06:44.050] - Jen Lehner That's absolutely genius. I mean, we're sending emails all day, every day anyway. We might as well use that signature space for something other than our LinkedIn profile picture. That is just a great idea. Do you ever actively send that list to someone or after you have a podcast episode, you say, Hey... Okay, yeah, tell us about that.
[00:07:05.000] - Joe Fier Yes. Sometimes more than others, right now, I'm pretty backlogged. I'm like, I got to pace it out a little bit. But yes, after Really any engagement, anyone that you know is connected, you'll start to get this feeling that, I just want to share this everywhere. Start with your email. That's the easiest thing to do, and it's automated. Keep your list updated, but the link in your email stays the same, your signature.
[00:07:32.050] - Jen Lehner The minute that we get off this call, that's happening.
[00:07:35.220] - Joe Fier Seriously.
[00:07:36.080] - Jen Lehner My podcast started because of a challenge that Gary Vaynerchuk threw out there where he promised that he would come on your show if you started a podcast and uploaded three episodes, and I had to chase him down like it was my job, like my life depended on it. But that's how I treated it. I can't even tell you how many, I don't know, maybe 50, 80 hours that I spent really trying to track this down. But I knew that if I got him as my guest on my podcast, then I could get other people very easily because they weren't going to look at my downloads necessarily. They didn't know. I didn't know what I was doing. They just saw that Gary Vanechuk was on there. That's how I got a lot of big names. But if you don't get that one big fish to start with, and even if you do, I love this method. This is fantastic.
[00:08:25.750] - Joe Fier You don't need the big name.
[00:08:26.900] - Jen Lehner Yeah, you're right.
[00:08:28.180] - Joe Fier It helps because now Well, and this is where, and this morphs into why I love podcasting so much, and it sounds like you're doing the same idea, is you bring someone on that you really want on your show, or maybe not so much. I don't know me. No, I'm just kidding. But you have now this 30 minutes, 45 minutes, whatever it is, of bantering. You're getting to know each other. You're going back and forth, you're smiling, you're nodding, all that fun stuff. It's all the likability, psychology. Then at the At the end of it, you have the opportunity to do something more. It's not like everything just stops when you hit stop on this. We're using Zincaster, but if you're on Zoom, Riverside, whatever it is. There's still a relationship there that was just built virtually. It's up to us to maybe in the moment would be a good thing to do, but then follow up is like, Hey, maybe you know someone else. Or like, Hey, check out this list. Like you said, Here's my dream 100, or if there is a specific person person or persons that you can ask or something else.
[00:09:33.930] - Joe Fier It's like, just extend that conversation because Gary Vee, I mean, guys obviously connected to everyone. That was an opportunity. It's like, Hey, I have a little list here of people, is there anyone that you think that you can connect me with? And you can probably word it a little bit more persuasively or whatever. But at that point, they're probably just like, Yeah, of course. I know a few of these people I'll send them emails right now.
[00:10:00.620] - Jen Lehner I wish I would have known that then, but I'm going to use it now. Okay, so we have a lot of our listeners do have podcasts, but a lot of our listeners do not have podcasts. But I believe that 100% of our listeners could benefit by being a guest on other podcasts. I know that you feel that way as well. Why is that?
[00:10:22.520] - Joe Fier It goes back to the virtual stage concept. This is where there's brands everywhere. If it's not a personal brand, it might be a company with someone that has a podcast. And podcasts are, I won't say they're easy to get out there because there is a lot of work that goes into them. It can be easy to launch them. It's more sustaining them. So you mentioned there's a reason why Gary Vee said, Hey, get X amount of episodes out first. Right. So I would definitely look for a podcast with at least 20, let's say, published. So you know your time is going to go somewhere, ideally. But it goes into... So my thought is always like, who's listening? It's not necessarily the host or the person, but it's like, who's the audience that's engaging already with that brand, with that podcast, with that host? Because those are the people I call them the target listener avatar. It's like, come up with this person, this persona. It's like we've all done these avatar exercises and workouts.
[00:11:28.590] - Jen Lehner It feels like a workout sometimes.
[00:11:30.000] - Joe Fier It feels like it. You have that picture of that person, and it's the same thing. It's like, figure out who they are, demographics, psychographics, their pain, struggles, their dreams. You'll start to identify where do these people live. And a lot of them, obviously, are listening to podcasts. They're just attached to someone, a brand somewhere. Maybe they're in your network, maybe they're not. But start with the people in your network and then get the referrals, like I was just talking about with the Dream100. And now, guesting, you could show up and you have an audience that's already engaged. The podcast listeners, for those of you who have a podcast, you know the engagement rate. If you're looking at, I think Apple gives you some of the stats, Spotify now does, too. So you can see the engagement rate of people on your episodes, and it gives you at least some insight in a podcast.
[00:12:21.920] - Jen Lehner Engagement, how? What do you mean? Other than just... If they're actually listening versus downloading?
[00:12:30.540] - Joe Fier Clicking off. Basically, they're listening through the entire episode, like what percentage. It's like how YouTube has all the analytics, and it shows where drop off rates are. With Spotify, they have the whole... There's a whole analytics dashboard that you have to sign up. I think it's called Spotify for podcasters. Pretty direct. And Apple has their own thing, and they'll give you some of those metrics to see how well your episodes are engaging. I've seen on average for my episodes, and because these are not public numbers, which is nice at the same time because most people don't know your numbers or how many subscribers you have either. But at the same time, I'm seeing about 70-ish. I've seen even up to 90% engagement rate, and that's consumption rate of episodes. You compare that to a YouTube video or a Facebook ad or whatever else that you're trying to get that attention engagement, and it's just a drop off. If you're thinking about podcasting, it's this very intimate thing. Everybody has their headphones on, probably. It's a one-to-one thing. Now it's getting a little bit more so, but it's not really on a TV where everybody's sitting around listening and talking about it.
[00:13:47.400] - Joe Fier It can't happen. But the engagement rate in that one-to-one connection is where it's at.
[00:13:53.350] - Jen Lehner When you're looking for shows to be a guest on, what do you think about... I want to Two things I want to put out there before I forget. One is stair-stepping your way, especially if you're new at this, and the idea of pitching, well, someone like yourself that has a top 1% podcast. A beginning podcaster or podcast guest might be intimidated. But if they go on four or five, or six, or 10 small shows, it's easy for them to get a spot. And now they have a resume to present.
[00:14:30.620] - Joe Fier Yeah. I think it starts more... It's more of a confidence thing than anything. And it's the hardest part for anybody to not only flip on the camera and start talking and feeling comfortable, but knowing your words are going out there, you don't really have control. Sometimes you do. But let's be honest, you're hoping for the best, and you got to trust yourself. But I think there's a lot of merit in, get some practice in. I think there's over three million podcasts. I don't know the exact number. So there's a podcast for anybody in anything now. Most of them are not active, let's be honest. A lot of them podfade out. But at the same time, there are so many good podcasts out there. If you just reached out. Listennotes gives you... listennotes.com is a website. It's like a search engine for podcasts. And it gives you rankings of shows. It shows you what shows are connected to others? You can look at people's names. I say that because you could use it as a reference of like, All right, so who's been on these shows? Where are they at? Maybe I know them or not.
[00:15:41.860] - Joe Fier Does this person even have a show? I didn't know they had a podcast. It's like these are ways you can start to think, Okay, well, maybe that's a good one. I can go reach out. I would say start with people in your network. I'm sure someone probably has a podcast that you know. I would start there for practice.
[00:15:59.430] - Jen Lehner What about the pitch itself? My podcast is nowhere near as big as yours, and we get inundated with pitches. When they first started, the ones that would say, Hey, Jen, just listen to your episode with Joe Feer. I really enjoyed when you talked about blah, blah, blah. I have a guest to be on your show. Now, they all say that, and it's very insincere most of the time, and they're not listening to your podcast. I will say I have actually accepted a few of these pitches, and those were the ones that gave me very specific bulleted titles of what they could share on the show. If I thought it was a good fit, then a few times I have accepted those pitches. What do you think about the actual pitch?
[00:16:49.770] - Joe Fier I get the same thing. I think every podcast are these days, because our emails, they're all tied in. Then you have AI, and everybody is a great outreach person now these days. I ignore almost all of them. There are a few that sneak in. Usually it's because I'm like, Oh, that's actually a bigger name person, or that's an author that I read. Okay, yeah. I'll chat. But when you're thinking of pitching, and this is why I love referrals so much. I love the warm introductions. It just makes it a no-brainer. That's how we got connected. That's how pretty much everyone on my podcast came through a referral. It just makes it easier, to be very honest. You don't have to feel like you prove yourself so much.
[00:17:32.400] - Jen Lehner It just feels better all the way around.
[00:17:35.330] - Joe Fier I mean, that's life in a nutshell. That's how we find our friends and all that, too. I would lean into referrals more, but at the same time, When you're pitching, some of the items that stand out to me, because I don't really pitch, but when I present myself, what I'm going to do is make sure that I'm actually listening to their episodes. It's It's very easy to just drop a title of an episode, but that could be scraped, and that's what these people are doing, usually. But it's like, yeah, if there's a specific takeaway from an episode, maybe something that you have implemented or you shared, actually show that you've done something about it. Maybe you're posting on social about that episode or even commenting directly. I think that's... Take it out of email. I think it's the big thing. When you go to social, go direct, or even maybe message someone on, it could be LinkedIn, Twitter, or X. There's some of these inbox that not a lot of people are really going to. They're more going to the email inbox because it's easier. I think where you pitch matters a lot. So show that you actually cared.
[00:18:47.960] - Joe Fier When you're pitching, actually show how you can give value. It's not just, Hey, here's what I could talk about and what my accomplishments are. But say, Hey, going on your episode, I would love to be your Shining Star guest. I'm going to help you promote this to my X number of people on email, social. Now with AI and all these tools, I'll just give you a little glimmer into my brain and how we operate is there's a tool called Cast Magic that I feel like every podcaster and content creator should be using. To get there, hustleandflowchart.com/castmagic, C-A-S-T-M-A-G-I-C. I see. I can't spell magic. So yeah, Cast Magic is the tool that... It's incredible. And basically, long story short, you upload an audio or video into this thing and it creates a whole bunch of content based off of what you just recorded. So it'll give you emails, it'll give you social media posts, and all these other elements that you can now basically tell people, Hey, I'm going to promote the heck out of this episode when I'm on there with you. And you know what? I They don't even give you a lot of this promotional material, so it makes your life easier because most podcasters aren't promoting their own thing anyway.
[00:20:07.530] - Joe Fier That's the secret there.
[00:20:10.460] - Jen Lehner I think that's huge. Yes. I mean, that's of great value to the podcast host, and that sounds like a great tool. We've been using VidYo.Ai, V-I-D-Y-O. Do you know that? But that's just video. You told me about that last time.
[00:20:22.930] - Joe Fier Yeah.
[00:20:23.080] - Jen Lehner I mean, that has literally saved us hundreds of hours. Oh, I can't wait to check this out.
[00:20:29.470] - Joe Fier That's for It's video clips, right? If I'm not mistaken?
[00:20:31.860] - Jen Lehner Yeah, it's long. You take a long video, yeah, and then it makes short form videos. But-beautiful. They've always had tools like this and AppSumo and Product Hunt, but they were so clunky. You ended up having to edit them so much that it was just not even worth it. You might as well just do it from scratch. This, what makes this so brilliant, and I'm sure it's true with cast magic as well, it knows the beginning, middle, and end of a thought.
[00:20:58.040] - Joe Fier Yes, it does.
[00:20:59.230] - Jen Lehner That's the eye part of the AI. It really is intelligent in that way. That's why it's been... Because we very rarely have to make any edits other than maybe a design tweak or something.
[00:21:11.830] - Joe Fier That's awesome. Yeah, cool. Try that Well, it doesn't do the video part. So yeah, what you're doing there, Jen, with video is great because they work in conjunction. And speaking of that, reels and shorts, that's definitely an opportunity right now, especially on YouTube. It's just reading something. That's the biggest way to get discovered on YouTube right now and to get new subscribers. We're seeing it- Is it Shorts? Yes.
[00:21:37.200] - Jen Lehner Well, that is why this is the flagship episode where we are doing videos. So if you're listening, we're actually doing this in ZenCaster with video turned on. And although I've had access to this capability always, of course, I mean, since forever, I never turned the camera on, not because I'm shy, but because I heard a podcast guy once saying that he did I like to do video because the listeners would lose and not be able to see all of those nonverbal verbal communication things that we do. I was thinking early on when you were talking about the 100 hit list or whatever, I on camera made a gesture to you to show you that my head was exploding. But the listeners, they can't hear that. But I was looking at your amazing mind map thing that you have, Flowchart, which we're going to be able to share with our listeners. A nice portion of that was repurposing the content into video. I thought, Well, really, it's dumb that I haven't been. I mean, it really is. I do think we connect more when we're looking at each other face-to-face. So thanks for starting a trend here at Front Row Entrepreneur.
[00:22:53.350] - Jen Lehner Twisted your arm a little bit. I'm sold, I think. So this was very easy, even though I was a little resident because my headphones are ugly and they clash. They're like neon green with a plaid shirt. They're cool.
[00:23:04.450] - Joe Fier They're unique.
[00:23:05.710] - Jen Lehner But thank you. Okay, back to guessing. What can people do once they've been on the show? How can they best leverage their appearance on the show.
[00:23:15.560] - Joe Fier Yeah, that's a great point. I would say with what we were just talking about is going in with the mindset that, well, of course, prepare your sofa the show, listen to the episodes, a couple of episodes beforehand, go in and prepare the host with questions, with topics and things so they are well-equipped to present you correctly. Give them bios, a short and long bio. I know I gave that to you. You also have a great intake form as well, Jen. Not most people have that as well.
[00:23:47.430] - Jen Lehner Oh, thank you.
[00:23:48.420] - Joe Fier Yeah, it's twofer because sometimes the host helps you out, sometimes they really don't. And most times that's the case. I would say even a nice one sheet. There's I don't have a template or a link I can direct you to quickly, but for my show and really myself, if you could just imagine a one sheet has your face on there, it could be your podcast if you have one as well. And then put all your accomplishments on one column. It's like a two column thing. There's a quick bio about you, maybe some of the topics and things you're known to talk about and love to discuss. Then talk about maybe some partnerships or different things that you're doing in general in business is. But that's a nice one snapshot. It's not a big old media kit where it's daunting. It's literally just like, Oh, it looks cool. You can make it in Canva. I have a little template in there.
[00:24:42.200] - Jen Lehner How can we see your one sheet?
[00:24:44.110] - Joe Fier I would love to see that. I know. Now I'm like, Dang it, I really got to make a link. I'll make sure that you have it, and then we can link it in the show notes if that works.
[00:24:51.350] - Jen Lehner Okay, thank you. Yeah, that would be great. Something just came to mind for me that I did ages ago, and I haven't used it in a while, but I took all the podcasts that I've ever been on, which most of them showed up in Spotify, and I just searched my own name. Every podcast I've ever been on populated. Then I created a playlist, and it says, Jen Lehner's podcast appearances. I have a link now, and it's embeddable as well. I believe it's very pretty. It's a pretty list. And then that gives me something to share with a potential podcast host. I haven't used that in forever, but just a thought of a way of leveraging appearances.
[00:25:33.860] - Joe Fier Yeah. Is that through Podchaser?
[00:25:36.400] - Jen Lehner No, I just typed my name in Spotify.
[00:25:40.090] - Joe Fier Spotify, and then it's all there. Yeah.
[00:25:42.010] - Jen Lehner I'm not all, but a good portion of every podcast.
[00:25:45.300] - Joe Fier That's a good... I haven't done that, and I like that. And yeah, you can embed it and it looks professional. It's reputable because it's on Spotify. People recognize it. So back to guesting and preparing. So the one sheet is a great resource that you can use for not only your own podcast and to get sponsorships or partnerships, which we could talk about, too. It all works together. These are the foundational elements that I always coach people through. But go in there. So you're preparing your host, the host of the show you want to go on. Everything you can do to prepare them is just going to make your life and their life easier. If you have some links to a call to action, we're talking about a checklist or some lead magnet that is in addition to maybe your podcast you want to shout out or your YouTube channel or your website, something a little bit more vague, have something focused as well that then speaks to a specific pain point and the idea is that the audience, you're going to cherry-pick the ones that are most engaged, let's be honest. They're not leaving that show.
[00:26:50.270] - Joe Fier They're in addition, they're going with you. Because you resonated with them somehow, so you want to give them a nice, clear way to continue that path into your world. That's where we talk about, there's a checklist that I have. If it's okay, Jen, maybe I'll just share it out as we see it.
[00:27:07.110] - Jen Lehner Yeah, please. We all want that checklist.
[00:27:08.870] - Joe Fier Yeah. It's like a 16-point checklist that goes through how to leverage podcasting to generate more leads and sales for your business. It'll put you on my email list, but also gives you a nice PDF checklist and a lot more hustleandflowchart. Com/checklist. Pretty simple. We'll get you there. Having something something like that prepared, it could be custom to the show or just broad like that. Either way works. Don't complicate it, but have it prepared. Give that to them in advance as well. So the links, they can all be shared in the show notes. That's a lot of the prep.
[00:27:46.590] - Jen Lehner Yeah. Yeah. I mean, honestly, that's probably the best way to leverage your guest appearance is to capture their audience through a very generous gift to their audience. People really appreciate it. If you bring them into a mini-course, for example, if you put it behind a login to a little three-part mini-course, now they're in your world. There's all sorts of possibilities. I missed an opportunity one time. I just could just kick myself. I mean, I was just really a dummy, but I went on to a very big podcast, and I didn't have an offer in order. So I think I had a freebie for them, but I don't think it was that good. More importantly, I didn't have an offer, and they were ready to buy. These people came and they were just ready to buy. I really didn't have my... Based on the topic that we were discussing, I didn't have an offer created. I still kick myself. I want to go back on this person's podcast, but maybe I will try that.
[00:28:53.920] - Joe Fier You'll get more opportunities. That's the thing with podcasting. I know so many people that will just focus on this as their marketing strategy is podcast guesting, and they show up everywhere. Let's be honest, they're putting in the work and time. But you get some of this stuff done, like your one sheet. There's a document that you can create with questions that's maybe not show-specific, like what we did. You had an intake form. But at the same time, you could have a general document of topics and then questions that are pretty common that a host can ask of you, along with your bio in there, your head shots, links to all your socials, your freebie, even your offer, all that stuff. If you could combine that in one place and then just literally send that to a host, that's 90% of the game right there. And most people just are not doing that. Host will thank you.
[00:29:50.510] - Jen Lehner To send it all to them digitally, right? Yes. Have you ever heard of anybody using Snail Mail to get on a podcast?
[00:30:00.050] - Joe Fier To get on a podcast? Actually, no.
[00:30:03.600] - Jen Lehner I guess that's just straight up bribery. Just send some chocolate.
[00:30:06.300] - Joe Fier I think it's a great idea. Let's be honest, that's the most neglected inbox these days. True. Oh, my gosh.
[00:30:15.070] - Jen Lehner There's nobody else in there. It's wide open.
[00:30:18.070] - Joe Fier I used to have a whole newsletter business. My previous business partner and I, Matt, we used to send monthly newsletters in the mail, and it was a paid thing on the back of our podcast, actually. It was like all the notes from the episodes. I loved it because people don't leave for one. It was a subscription thing, but at the same time, there were always these offers or other things we would send in addition, just because we knew, Yeah, we got your address, you want more of this, and no one else is marketing to you in that address.
[00:30:49.900] - Jen Lehner I've done it a few times. I never really stuck with it, but this gives me a great idea because I am headed into a launch. And what I did once was I had my sales page printed, and I just sent it in the mail to everybody whose mailmail address I had. And why not do that again? I'm going to do that again.
[00:31:08.590] - Joe Fier And I love the idea of, to be honest, I didn't really think about... I mean, we did do this through the newsletter. It's like, Hey, subscribe to the episode. Almost like contest. You have little inserts inside the newsletter, but sending it separately. I mean, there's so many tools. There's one that I'm thinking of, like a handwritten. There's all these tools I can basically mimic handwriting. Now with AI, you can automate a lot.
[00:31:34.570] - Jen Lehner Or you could do what I did, and I hired a local Task Rabbit. I like it. I tested out handwriting, and they had to send me handwriting samples. I don't know, I paid $200 maybe, to have them hand address all of the mail.
[00:31:50.410] - Joe Fier That's awesome. I mean, you know if someone's going to open that envelope or whatever it is. That could be a pitch. It could be an ethical bribe to your audience if you have their address. I'm sorry. I was blank. I kept saying email address. I'm like, That's how it locked in. Like email address. No, physical address. Yeah, bribe them to... Honestly, if you have a podcast or anything, it's like, get them to rate and review and also subscribe to what you have going on. If you have an internal email list, it's actually it gives me an idea because it's like that can be a little mini contest or giveaway or incentive. It's just cutting through all the clutter that we all deal with these days, going straight to the physical.
[00:32:35.590] - Jen Lehner I love it. Okay, a little earlier, you had mentioned sponsorship, and I definitely don't want to let you go until we pick your brain a little bit about sponsorship, because on your website, which you guys, you have to go look at his website, go to hustleandflowchart.com. And of course, there's hustleandflowchart.com/checklist. But just his main website, go there and tell me that is not the best website alive today. It is really, really, really so good. So much so that before we pressed record, I had to find out who made the website, which we can give a shout out to them. Give them a shout out. Studio One Design. It's really fantastic. I'm going to be calling them to redo my website. I noticed that you have a tab that says Partnerships. Oh, it looks so juicy. Can you just talk us through your sponsorship framework and let us know how we could think about how much to charge for a sponsored spot?
[00:33:33.170] - Joe Fier Yeah. So this is having a partnership, anything. I like partnership more than sponsorship. Because it opens up the doors to maybe it's a JV thing. We I can do some affiliate stuff. Maybe it is paid sponsorship. That's cool. Or maybe it's, I want to be a part of your network thing. And yes, I do them all. Because I honestly think podcasting is the best networking tool, period. In-stop. Obviously, in-person is the best, but let's be honest, if you have a podcast, you have the ability to connect with almost anyone you want using the Dream100 strategy and being intentional. But also, this is the part that most people forget is you have a listener or a watcher who's super engaged and you're affecting their lives. So there's this ripple effect. I never forget the fact that it's like, Okay, we're in this unique position that we are cultivating creating ideas and the expression, putting them out into the world, and people are going to change their lives because of it. So it's up to us to do the right thing.
[00:34:38.640] - Jen Lehner Don't screw it up. No pressure.
[00:34:41.740] - Joe Fier Yeah. So with that in mind, it's like, Well, I bet there's some other partners out there that we can collab and jive with that talk our language or can help our audience, further their lives, whatever that looks like and whatever your specialty is. When it comes to partnership, sponsorships on... Most people don't have any. I just did a poll to Podfest. It's a big conference I'll be going out to next week. I was doing a workshop to their attendees, and I think they said it was 10% to have sponsorships or some partnerships. I'm like, These are existing podcasters. A lot of them were over 100 episodes in. I'm like, You can honestly get someone from day one. But especially if you're in by 100 episodes, it's like, Have some something there to at least Just cover your costs of producing your podcast, because most people don't. The whole thing is like, figure out... It could be a dream 100 thing. And this is probably one of the best ways to start the conversation is like, put some of those people, those brands that you would love to work with, maybe the CEO's name or someone on there, put them on that dream 100 list so at least you're starting to become in their orbit.
[00:35:54.440] - Joe Fier You're within... You at least can... You can have a chat here and get to know them a little more. I've done that so many times.
[00:36:03.290] - Jen Lehner Where you get the CEO and then you present a partnership opportunity.
[00:36:09.850] - Joe Fier It's not a brilliant pitch, but it's like you just... You start that conversation. It's like, Hey, how can we collab I think you have something really cool. Studio One Designs, Greg, you mentioned them earlier. We did a collaboration early last year. I brought him on the podcast. We talked and we were like, Man, there's a lot of cool stuff we can give to my audience, but also his audience. We figured out a deal where essentially it started from having that conversation and just knowing, Hey, more people need to see this. Let's figure out a way to essentially arrange a deal. It's not always money. Maybe it's a trade. If you start get away from just like it has to be a paid for dollars arrangement, that's where you can come up with maybe a lateral deal there.
[00:37:01.830] - Jen Lehner Listeners, PS, a little side note here. If you go to Studio One Design and you decide to work with them, you make sure and let them know that you heard about it on the Front Row Entrepreneur podcast with Jen Lehner, and maybe they'll end up being a sponsor of this show. Smart. But there has to be like, do you ever have people that reach out to you and they say, We'd like to be a sponsor? How do you decide with those direct... That aren't the warm, fuzzy relationship you might have with someone. How do you charge them?
[00:37:30.670] - Joe Fier Okay, yeah. Specifically, so I have a good answer there. There's a CPM that most people will want to pay, sponsorship, especially if it's an agency. Basically, the industry standard goes from $20 to $30 CPM for payment for a sponsored read. This is how an agency, a podcast agency, will think in terms of what they're willing to pay you as a host. $20 $30 to $30 CPM. That's for a thousand actual downloads on your podcast. I say specifically, and this is general, not everyone obviously speaks the same language, but that's like if you're talking to agencies, 80% of the time, they're going to have that in their mind of what they want to pay you. You start doing the math on that, and I'm not good at head math right now, still really here, is it's not a lot of money. It's like maybe you can get a couple of bottles of wine that month if you take on that sponsor. The way that I have flipped it and always have done this since the beginning of the show is get yourself out of that CPM game. No one wins. And honestly, it's more of the corporate, they win.
[00:38:47.020] - Joe Fier So you as the creator, you need to have your own value and know that you can arrange the pieces and say, Hey, I have a reach outside of just the audio space. I have reach on YouTube. I have on my email list, my social media list, all these other platforms where your brand shows up. You will mention your podcast or you can mention them as a sponsored partnership. Put that on there, and that's where on your one sheet, back to that one sheet Back to that one-sheet document, your reach is very much on there. That one sheet document, by the way, has landed me so many deals and also a partnership with HubSpot on their podcast network. It was because of that one sheet. Because it It shows like, Oh, here are the metrics, here's the reach, here's what they do, here are other people that trust them, other brands. It's all like a big credibility piece, basically.
[00:39:39.090] - Jen Lehner That is, first of all, goals. I want to talk about this network thing because more and more podcasts I listen to, the podcaster themselves will mention another podcast or podcaster and rave about it. So they're part of a network like the HubSpot Network, right? Probably.
[00:39:57.710] - Joe Fier Maybe.
[00:39:58.420] - Jen Lehner Yeah. And then I don't really understand how that works.
[00:40:01.440] - Joe Fier Well, how about this, Jen? Really fast. Before the network, I want to close the loop on the how to price these things really fast. Please. Yes. Sorry. Because that's where... No, you're good. Because it's a great question over there. I just wrote it down, so I remember. When you package yourself up, get out of the CPM and put yourself into... So now you're showing, Hey, I have more reach, and I'm not just an audio podcaster, I'm a video podcaster, I'm a YouTuber, I'm a shorts creator. All these things extend your reach, which then bumps your value up because you are doing the work. Now, package that up as a flat fee. Don't do this whole CPM thing. But now, you can give three tiers. This is how... I think if shoot. I might have a link to it. I'm going to find it for you. But I think it's hustleandflowchart.com. It's not sponsorship because it goes to my... But there's a rates page. It might be media. I'm just throwing links out there. But basically, put three tiers. Gold, silver, bronze, and figure out where can you shout these people out. Now you're giving them at least a few options on how they can work with you and how they can integrate their ads into what you're doing.
[00:41:18.800] - Joe Fier Like I said, might not be a paid thing. Maybe they see that and they're like, Okay, cool. I have something else valuable that you might like as a trade. Maybe there's a deal that can be made. But at least you're putting yourself out there with your rates. You're establishing a baseline of what you think your value is, not what the industry says you should be.
[00:41:39.630] - Jen Lehner Have you ever been in a situation where someone has reached out to you and you were just like, I don't know how I tell them, but I don't do essential oils or something. No offense to anyone doing essential oils. Yeah, I love essential oils. Maybe it just wouldn't be... It might not be a fit for your business.
[00:41:59.270] - Joe Fier Honestly, I wanted to stress over it. You're going to get some, but honestly, if you're getting a lot of inbound, that's a good problem. Because most people don't even get that much. But the more you put yourself out there, the more these partnerships and things you do and publicly state, the more inbound you will get. You can politely say, Hey, no, not right now, thing, or you can ignore them. It just depends if they're spamming, too. What's the context there? But that's the big thing is, really, it's flip from CPM, which is industry standard, to flat fee with specific ways that you want to deliverables you'll get with that sponsorship.
[00:42:39.750] - Jen Lehner Can you give us an example of a package? It doesn't have to be your package, but the way to look at a Silver, Gold, Platinum, whatever.
[00:42:47.540] - Joe Fier For sure. And off the top of my head, and this is where I'll share a link to because I think it's helpful. It's another thing people can swipe. A gold can be, let's call it a pre-roll or a mid-roll mention in every episode that I release. So it could be like a 30-second ad spot, let's say, to a software product. And it's just a quick little ad read. Typically, it's something that you have some read them over. They probably give you some talking points and then sends to a link. Sometimes you can do that as an affiliate in addition to being a sponsor.
[00:43:22.580] - Jen Lehner That's pretty sweet.
[00:43:23.860] - Joe Fier Nice. It doesn't always work that way, but we offer it. Yeah, why not? So do that. So that's where it covers... You're covering the podcast that way. Do the video, too, because that can translate to YouTube. So now that can be an extra addition. Hey, do you want this on YouTube as well? Well, that could be part of the package. Email mentions. Let's say you have an email newsletter that goes out once a week. That can be a mention in there.
[00:43:48.890] - Jen Lehner So you make those a la carte or part of that package?
[00:43:51.520] - Joe Fier Part of the package. So I established, here are the three buckets of things that we can do together. Each have a different price point. And let's range. It could be like 3,000 a month for, let's say, the gold. I'm just going to throw some numbers out. And 2,000, a thousand thing.
[00:44:10.640] - Jen Lehner Okay. Love it. Okay, love it. That helps a lot. And then when you say a month, you publish It's a week, twice a week.
[00:44:16.080] - Joe Fier I do twice a week now. Yeah, it's crazy.
[00:44:18.370] - Jen Lehner That's a great value, honestly, if those are what you're charging. Great value.
[00:44:23.910] - Joe Fier A little bit more. But depending... No, it is good value. And that's the whole point is because you're We're going to make way more by doing that than the CPM. Honestly, CPM, just don't play the game unless you have millions of downloads. You're not going to win.
[00:44:38.430] - Jen Lehner When you put it that way, I'm like, Oh, garbage. Let's not just need to touch that.
[00:44:42.720] - Joe Fier Most people don't do the math. It's like, Do the math.
[00:44:44.800] - Jen Lehner I think it feels like it's an ego thing a little bit when Bowl & Branch reaches out to you and they want to be on your show, you think, Wow, I hear that on CNN every five minutes. I could tell you that if Cars for If my kids ever contacted me, I would run so fast the other direction. I don't know. That commercial, it makes me insane. Have you heard it? Actually, I haven't. I could sing it for you right now. I'm not going to do it. I'll do it. It's just... Well, the Liberty commercial. Oh, yeah. It's that annoying. It's worse. It's the worst commercial I've ever heard of.
[00:45:18.910] - Joe Fier I was so tempted to sing it, but I'm not going to.
[00:45:21.560] - Jen Lehner Please. I will hang up on you. All right, Joe. Well, you have one more thing?
[00:45:27.840] - Joe Fier Yeah, I actually The open loop. I know someone's going to be listening right now. I wrote it down just for us, the network and the shoutouts.
[00:45:35.360] - Jen Lehner I'll just really fast. Thank you. No, you don't have to hurry. We have time. Go ahead.
[00:45:39.350] - Joe Fier That's why I have always got to have a notebook by me or else my brain goes, whew. So as a network, I'm just going to say podcast network. So I'm on one now. I've never been a part of officially of a network before HubSpot, and it's pretty cool. I've learned a lot. And yes, there's requirements to be a part of a and there's shoutouts. One of them is an ad that shouts out other podcasts within the network. So you mentioned that and how that works. I mean, in this case, it's pretty clear. They give us ad reads. There's a contract. Contractually, I basically say every episode that goes out needs to have an ad read for them. And that's fine. That's what I agreed to. And that also benefits me.
[00:46:28.570] - Jen Lehner How does it benefit you?
[00:46:30.280] - Joe Fier Because now they're shouting me out on their shows as well. So it's like as that network, and it's rotating, it also benefits in the fact that they feature episodes on their website, in social media. They start sharing it out to, I don't know, with them, it's like a hand... At least a few million people on their email list on their reach. I mean, that's HubSpot. Huge.
[00:46:54.140] - Jen Lehner Yeah.
[00:46:55.130] - Joe Fier Any network or collaboration, you can take that concept and that framework Or you can go direct. It's probably the best way to market a podcast is to go direct to another show, get them to do a shout out, and either you're paying for that mention or you're doing some collaboration. Maybe you're swapping and doing the same thing on your show. That's what I'd recommend. Podcast listeners, listen to more podcasts. Trying to grow it through Facebook ads, Google ads, all that. I've tried it all. Honestly, it's good for branding. You show your face somewhere, but it doesn't translate to listens so much. If you can arrange, find some other podcast in your space, if you're starting out, this could be great. You might have to pay or give them some offer, make it worth it. Yeah, 30-second ad. Typically, it's read by the host, probably not by you.
[00:47:50.320] - Jen Lehner I think that's better. I mean, it gives it more credibility.
[00:47:52.540] - Joe Fier Yeah, for sure. I would do that. And yeah, treat it as a network. You don't have to be a part of a network, but this is what they're doing. It works.
[00:48:01.490] - Jen Lehner That is so smart. I would like to just summarize that for our listeners or just highlight that. We all have friends who have podcasts. So just create your own network, right? And reach out and say, Hey, let's do a mention swap. Bingo. As long as your audience is... As long as it makes sense with similar audiences, then that's such a good idea.
[00:48:22.830] - Joe Fier I remember 15 years ago, getting into online marketing, we would do these ad swaps, and that would be email list. Same idea. It's like, Hey... And it was this mastermind group. We all started together, so everyone's helping each other. But it's just a group of friends, a group of colleagues, people. It's like, Well, just do some agreements. Hey, I got a list of so and so or this amount of people listening. Would you be open to doing that? And mentioning me, I'll mention you. It's a swap. It doesn't have to go for super long. It could be a couple of episodes a month. See what happens. I bet it'll go up, not down. So it's worth Ryan.
[00:49:00.220] - Jen Lehner I love that. I love that. Any other open loops that we need to close?
[00:49:05.620] - Joe Fier I think that's it. I've been making notes. I'll find links for the one sheet and the sponsorship, so you can put those in the show notes.
[00:49:14.360] - Jen Lehner Okay. My final question is, what are you most excited for in 2024?
[00:49:20.640] - Joe Fier Well, now that I have a new daughter, I'm very excited to have her here because we've been wanting her for a long time.
[00:49:29.100] - Jen Lehner Congratulations.
[00:49:30.100] - Joe Fier Thank you. I love... You mentioned family. It's true. I have so much fun. So I'm looking forward to not to commit to so much. I'm slowing down. Honestly, with my show, Hustle and Flowchart, there's the hustle side. So there's the doing, which I'm really good at. And then there's the flowchart, which is more being. I'm like, I want to be more.
[00:49:52.020] - Jen Lehner Yeah, good for you.
[00:49:53.260] - Joe Fier Chill out a little bit more. Good for you.
[00:49:54.970] - Jen Lehner Are you finding that you are getting very distracted by AI just in all that is happening right now? I am.
[00:50:03.940] - Joe Fier I have, and not as much anymore because, well, I'm actually in it deeper than I ever thought I would be. Somehow I found myself as an advisor of a Silicon-backed big company where they're raising money. It's called Delphi. Ai. I recommend trying it out, everyone.
[00:50:25.800] - Jen Lehner What is it?
[00:50:27.220] - Joe Fier It's basically a way to clone own your likeness, use based off of all of your content, and it's perfect for podcasters, too.
[00:50:36.380] - Jen Lehner Is it like Hey, Jen?
[00:50:37.850] - Joe Fier Different. But Hey, Jen is pretty cool, too.
[00:50:40.030] - Jen Lehner It is.
[00:50:41.000] - Joe Fier No, this is actually... So if you go to... Well, I'm just going to give you a free link because this bypasses the front. If you go to hustleandflowchart. Com/delphi, that's D-E-L-P-H-I. That's the signup page. There's a free tier. I think if you go to their website, it's not there. That's what I'm saying. Use that link. They luckily gave that to me. Basically, it's a chatbot interface. There's also an audio call-in feature. If you can imagine, all of my episodes are in this bot. So 570 something episodes, videos, blog posts, all this stuff has been loaded into this personal AI clone. Now I can ask it, and anyone else can ask it, anything. And literally, it starts to act almost like a consultant in a way.
[00:51:31.160] - Jen Lehner What is the interface?
[00:51:32.680] - Joe Fier The interface itself, there's a chat interface. It's actually on their website. Like a chat box, okay. Yeah. If you go to hustleandflowchart. Com/botbot, B-O-T, you can try it. There's so many links, and I did not mean to do this.
[00:51:46.810] - Jen Lehner I love it. No, it's fine. We all love it. It's fun.
[00:51:49.760] - Joe Fier I feel like chatting all this stuff. I'm just. But try it out because it talks and thinks in it like me because it's using It's literally my content in the way that I present ideas and also my guests as well. So you're in there, Jen. The bot knows about you.
[00:52:08.460] - Jen Lehner So it can ask about specific things and help the user.
[00:52:14.190] - Joe Fier So it's not ChatGPT where it's more broad, it actually starts to consult with you. It's like, Okay, so you want to learn about how to grow a podcast, Jen? Have you thought about this? And it'll be an open-loop question to you, and then it goes deeper. And then it's using the database and the knowledge base from my podcast to give you insights based off of experts on the show and all that.
[00:52:38.220] - Jen Lehner Is it priced affordably enough for most small solopreneurs?
[00:52:42.170] - Joe Fier I think it's like, and this is partially what I was telling them when advising them, I was like, You need a free tier. So they did that, luckily. And also, I think it's like $20 a month as the base level. Yeah, that's great. Before, it was going to be like $100. I was like, Too much. Come on, we need to go down. So yeah, try it out. There's also this call-in feature where you can train your voice, and it's using some technology. 11 Labs is one of those. But this is built-in, and the bot sounds like me just off of a couple of really rough recordings I've given it. I didn't really try to train it too much. Sounds a little sleepy sometimes. Sometimes it needs to bump up the energy.
[00:53:24.230] - Jen Lehner Yeah, it's a zappier affect.
[00:53:25.820] - Joe Fier Yeah. I did a whole podcast, actually, of me talking to my clone, and it was fun. I'm not going to lie.
[00:53:32.900] - Jen Lehner Do you mind if I borrow that idea? Please do it.
[00:53:35.860] - Joe Fier I think everyone should. I was like, this is actually fun because I'm learning from me in a weird way, but also I know it's putting different concepts together that I wouldn't put together. It blows my mind. I'm just going to say 2024 is the year of... I feel like cloning is going to be a big thing, and I wouldn't say that in a scary way. A A lot of creators take it as such. There's tools like Delphi, which I think every creator should be trying out and at least testing and seeing what's possible. Because this thing integrates with your email. Like Zapier, you can start growing your email list this way. It could be integrated on your website. But literally, it's like, now you can engage with your audience in a way that I've never seen before.
[00:54:23.340] - Jen Lehner This is why I say that I have been swallowed into this hole I just got back from traffic and conversion. Oh, you went? Cool. My friend. Yeah. And I watched this. Do you know Roland Frazier?
[00:54:37.070] - Joe Fier I know him very well. He's a good friend of mine.
[00:54:39.030] - Jen Lehner His presentation knocked my socks off. I just knew I wasn't going to be able to sleep. I was like, I just got to get my hands on this. Then just, Zappier has always been wonderful, but now Zappier, combined with these tools and what's possible, no one's even had time to really stretch any of this stuff out. I mean, in our marketing world, maybe, I'm not talking about NASA scientists, but I mean, in our world, nobody has had... Because there is not enough time at the pace at which it is happening for us to really be able to stretch it out and test and see what's really possible. That's the part we've totally just jumped into a whole new episode. I love it.
[00:55:16.120] - Joe Fier I know we did.
[00:55:16.960] - Jen Lehner That is the part that just makes my heart beat fast. It's just like, wow, what's possible?
[00:55:25.040] - Joe Fier It's endless. It's endless. I find myself now I'm managing an app development team as part of that. Oh, my gosh. He's now a really good friend, but Mike Koenig's is... I don't know if you know him.
[00:55:37.460] - Jen Lehner I've heard his name, but I don't know him.
[00:55:40.250] - Joe Fier Yeah, I worked with him for a lot of years, and now we've become partners, and he's here in San Diego.
[00:55:44.270] - Jen Lehner It's like K-A-E-N-I-N-G?
[00:55:48.380] - Joe Fier K-o-e-n-i-g-s.
[00:55:49.570] - Jen Lehner Okay, well, I'm totally off.
[00:55:51.700] - Joe Fier It's taking a lot of time to nail that spelling. But the point is, we're literally developing AI apps now because there's a lot of low code, no code interfaces. If you have really good developers, you can start to stitch this stuff together like you're talking about and start to automate. Maybe it's a lead gen process where it actually enriches data and follows up in a smart way and fulfills a better outcome than a human could ever do because we're all bad at follow-up. Things like that as a business owner, definitely don't be scared of AI, but don't sleep on it. I'll just say that.
[00:56:33.940] - Jen Lehner It's not going anywhere. That's right. I couldn't agree more.
[00:56:36.940] - Joe Fier We'll leave it there. That's a whole another discussion.
[00:56:39.880] - Jen Lehner Well, and I'd love to have you back to talk more about AI, if you're willing.
[00:56:42.970] - Joe Fier Let's do it.
[00:56:44.140] - Jen Lehner Joe, thank you so much for sharing your brilliance. And folks, make sure you check out the Hustle and Flow Chart Podcast. Of course, we shared a bunch of links today. We're going to put that in the show notes. His main link is hustleandflowchart. Com/checklist. We're going to make that the main link so you can get that awesome checklist. Thank you so much. Go enjoy that, baby girl, and I'll see you soon.
[00:57:08.960] - Joe Fier Thank you, Jen. Appreciate you. Thanks for listening.
